in money - but did I play right? -

I finished in the money last night in a field of 70 players...not too shabby...It starts out as a limit game and turns into no-limit at the last table.


I was the shortest stack when there were nine of us left (that's who they pay - the top nine) - and caught the unbelivable pocket aces the first hand to get me into the $12000 range - (blinds 1000-2000) - so I'm playing, flucuating, went all in twice when the blinds almost consumed me...both times with suited connectors - and I caught some pairs to stay in.


I understand how suited connectors aren't the killer hand in tournaments they should be...but if you're about 2-3 hands away from being knocked out...are they better then, say, A-x offsuit or a medium pocket pair?


Here's the quiz...three of us left - We're up to 4000-8000 blinds -and I've got 16000, and 1st and 2nd both have about 35000- 40000. I'm on the button...which means I've got the Big blind next hand but at this moment I'm first to act - I'm literally out in 4 hands unless I take one down.. BB, then SB, button, then I'm all in.


I'd rate both of my players as cautious, but they will gamble with big cards...the guy in first place called an all-in raise with A-J suited...against someone who also had A-J suited, and the flop comes Q - Q - Q - but the guy who called caught a flush on the river... - I didn't play enough hands with the 2nd player to rate him anywhere.


I look down, I see 10-J suited...what do you do...I'll respond later with what I did


RB

Suited connectors are good when you are in a large field and are late to act, primarily if you can get in cheap. If most of the field have face cards then the odds are better for you and your 5,6 suited! But first of all if you're in the money, especially #3, you are playing right! Congratulations.


I like an all-in bet in this position. You are first to bet, so normally this would indicate a strong hand. You will be knocked out after four hands if you don't win, and you have a straight and flush draw possibility. Yes, your next hand could be pocket Kings, but that's the chance you take. Hopefully the other players match your bet, you flop a straight and take the hand down.


What did you do?

I think on this hand you definitely have to go all in for several reasons.


1) This is the best time to make the move as you have the most money and will be playing against two blinds so you could get some dead money in the pot if one of them fold. On the other hand, if you go all in on one of the blinds you could end up heads up with the other bland and not get the extra value from the additional blind money in the pot.


2) If you don't go all in here and catch nothing in the big blind, then you'll have to double up just to get back to this point. So, it's better to double up now.


3) While you'd much prefer to go all in with an ace or a pair, you're not likely to get a much better hand. In addition to having flush draw and straight draw possibilities, you have two decent sized cards. I wouldn't go all in here with smaller suited connectors.


4) There is the SLIGHT possibility that both blinds might fold and you'd pick up the blinds. If you wait, this isn't even a possibility because you won't even have enough to cover the big blind the next time it comes around.


Also, congratulations for the high finish.

I went all in, and so did the chip leader, and so did 2nd place. (uh-oh, I thought)


Chip leader had K-K, and other guy had A-Q - I couldn't believe for a three handed table they had such high cards...heh heh.


Long story short...flop comes blank, blank, K - turn comes a 9, so a queen still gives me the straight, but another miss fell on the river (actually 4 hearts fell, so the 2 kings made a flush) ...I came in 3rd place - making about 1/2 what the first place made and 250 less then 2nd place (I made about $970 - minus 70 in the dealer toke box for $900 total) -


I feel I made the right decision, although if I had been the BB, I might have let the blind go just for a shot at the 1st place guy knocking out the 2nd, as I suspect they both would have gone all in without me...but as much as I was proud of 3rd, I wanted 1st, and if I had limped out, I'd have to settle for 2nd - I'd never get a shot at tripling my stack and crippling other players like that one.


But it was nice...even though my entire existance at the table was essentially from one all-in to the next (with one bluff) - I spent the last two tournaments getting knocked out by lucky rivers about two tables away from the final one...so I was glad to make this one count.


I was surprised at what some people dove in with even near the end...A-5, Q-J offsuit...I guess they were just hoping for the high cards...I was glad to get suited connectors 2 or 3 times...gave me the most outs for the money. And the $970 I won for 3rd will pay for a good chunk of the tournament coming up next month...now I've got to review my no-limit book...try to figure out how to play that final table better.

brown,


I'm not clear about how or what position you played your hand, but I'll give you some guidlines on what I consider before I play a hand.


When you are three handed I perfer the A and anyother card for all in. Since, the most likely hand is for someone to pair the board and if they don't pair you win with the ace.


Ten-Jack suited is approximately a 50/50 situation against someone with a pair lower than tens. If they have a pair of tens or higher say your prayers to the poker gods.


Being suited adds approximtely 3% value to your hand. When I play shorthanded I value high cards.


There are situations three handed where I will not play. That is when I think one of the other players is likely to bust. So, you need to consider the prize amounts because second place usually pays quit a bit more than third.


Good Luck


Mark

***went all in twice when the blinds almost consumed me...both times with suited connectors***


I have the feeling that you're playing way too tight at least some of the time here. When your stack starts approaching only 4x the big blind, you need to find a hand to go all-in with BEFORE you post any blinds. In fact, even when you're down to 6x or so, you should loosen up a bit (instead of passing that AT, consider raising all-in with it). Now, all of this depends upon the table, and if you are going to get called by somebody no matter how much you bet, then you can only bet hands that are likely to be solid favorites. However, at most NL final tables, most hands are won preflop by the first raiser, but you need to make that raise when you have enough chips to make it expensive for them to call. Once you get down to 2x or 3x the big blind, a lot of players (including me) will call your raise without even looking at their cards (from the big blind, assuming everyone else folded).


Actually, the fact that you're even thinking of playing 4 more hands before going broke indicates a problem to me. You can't let yourself get blinded down to nothing here. This isn't a super-satellite where you can win the same as the chip leader by merely surviving long enough.


So, make that raise before your stack gets down to 2x.


As for the hand here, JTs is an above average hand, but not much. If you raise here, you will get called, maybe by both. Against 2 random hands, I'm not so sure JTs is the favorite (i.e., that it will win more than 33%). If these guys are playing to knock you out first, but won't gamble against each other, then I would play the JTs, because otherwise you're going to get blinded down to nothing, where you'll have to win a few times to even get an average stack. From this position, you only need to win 1 hand to become an average stack. If these guys are gambling, then fold and hope the shorter stack goes broke this hand. But, unless they have both already committed all or most of their stacks, do NOT fold your BB hand no matter how bad it is.


Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

In general, if you absorb the advice that Greg gives on this Forum and use it properly then you won't go broke in a hurry. You should indeed be looking to make a move before you get to 2BB because now the blind has an easy call with any two cards and you are in the hands of fate (well even more so than usual with blinds this high).


As to what hands you should go with, when you are so short stacked that you are committed as soon as you put the first bet in, then you are essentially playing showdown poker (we're going to see all five cards and may the best hand win). Think about what kind of hands you will get called by (most likely an Ace or a pair) and go from there.


A good Ace (ie at least medium kicker) or a pair gives you a decent chance. What many people miss is that Ace-small is not that great (again, think about what you are likely to be up against) and any two pictures is usually a better bet.


Andy.

Greg - Like the initial poster, I have trouble shifting gears from the relatively conservative play required to reach the final table to the more aggressive style needed to win. You recommend that players should loosen up and consider raising with hands such as AT when they have 6X the BB. Are you talking about this specific situation with only 3/4 people remaining or does that advise extend to final tables with 7-8 players remaining (particularly when you have a medium Ace in early position). A good example of this was at the final table of a No Limit tournment held last night when I passed once in the cutoff and once in early middle position with A9. At this point there were still 9 players at the final table and the blinds were 200/400. Should I have raised, especially since the loose players were to my right and the blinds were tight. I had $3000.


Thanks, Calvin

Actually, my advice is intended for all stages of the tourney. Once you get below a certain number of bets, you just don't have enough leverage to make people fold and steal the blinds anymore. And, at least in the bigger tourneys, a lot of the play is about stealing blinds at the right time (and thus, also about restealing, getting out when you're caught stealing, and defense against stealing in general).


I try to never let my stack get below 6x, at least not as a result of getting blinded down. I'll find something to play before I let that happen.


As for your A9 hands, if the blinds are tight, as are the players behind you, why should it matter what your cards are at all? If they're going to fold often enough, raise with anything. Especially when your stack is getting down close to the danger level of 3-6x big blind.


Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

Andy - The same question I asked Greg. Are we talking just 3/4 players left or a full table raising with any two pictures. Does any two pictures include hands like JT and QT.


thanks, Calvin