Check, Call. Check, Call, Check, Call.

[Jason Strasser]

Recently I've been tagging LAGs the minute I see them in a SNG. Before I was a bit lazy about it, but now I am really all over it. There are a lot of players who play the 215s on party, but there are also a lot of the same players.

Anyhow, this player had the LAG tag on him, he also had a big stack early from being laggy and winning a nice all in with his AJ vs AKs.

I'm in the BB with A9o. UTG limps, Laggy opponent limps im MP, SB completes I check. Blinds 25/50. I have 1500 chips, laggy opponent has 1900. We are 8 handed, if that matters.

Flop comes A23, 2 clubs, one of which is the ace of clubs. SB checks, I check, UTG checks, LAG opponent bets 60. I call, UTG calls.

Turn was an offsuit 10. Checks again to LAG, who bets 150. I call, UTG folds.

River another offsuit ten. Opponent bets 275, I call.

So, how did I do?
-Jason

[stripsqueez]

if he goes all in pre-flop with AJ then it seems likely you win

i'm a bit tempted to raise the turn and more tempted to raise the river - i'm placing a lot of faith in the idea that this player would have bet more if he had me beat and that he will call a decent sized raise on the river with a worse A

i like how you played it

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

[Jason Strasser]

Raising the turn isnt a good line, I think, because if he's bluffing I want him to bet the river. If I raise, he likely folds. If he has a weaker ace, he pays me off.

It's also possible he has a ten, because he really could be betting anything here, which is why I didn't raise the river. But my default line would not be to raise the river here because he could have some sort of 2 pair or something.

-Jason

[Tosh]

Generally this is one of those hands thats too good to fold against this LAGgy type of player but really not good enough to go nuts with. This is my line too.

[morgan180]

Jason,

I really enjoy reading and learning from your posts. Quick question for you. The 275 bet gets you in for about 1/3 of your stack. What is the largest size raise you would have called there on the end?


Thanks,
morgan

[Jason Strasser]

Hrmm..

Tough question. In theory, if I really felt it, I would call off my entire stack if I was convinced my opponent was full of crap. I sometimes like just going with my reads and such, but sometimes I can take it too far. I'd guess if this particular opponent made a huge bet on the river--500 or more, I'd really consider the fact that he might have a ten or a better hand. I'd also have a ton of trouble folding.

I guess I really can't answer your question fully, as I'd go with my read.

-Jason

[adanthar]

I don't like it in the 50's. The escalating bet size smells of value bets.

I would much rather call a pot sized bet on the flop, wait for the turn check and then put in a smallish bet on the river than to call a second bet that looks like it's keeping pace with the pot size.

Then again, if you really don't think you can fold on the turn...

[Jason Strasser]

Ok.

Put the opponent on a hand.

-Jason

[Jason Strasser]

If a LAG bet the flop with nothing, why would he check the turn with nothing?

[lorinda]

I often play the same hand the same way, and a LAG is a LAG whatever the limit.

I put him on any two pretty cards from A2s (boooo) to KQo (yay) including random pairs like 88.

Lori

[morgan180]

thanks jason. another question with A9 if you weren't in the big blind would you even be in the hand at all? and would you play it the same way after the flop if you were?

[adanthar]

First things first: If I call the turn, I would certainly call the river since you're now beating his counterfeited aces up as well as a missed draw.

Having said that, I just ran a quick list through my head. I can't pin him down on a hand, and it's very possible all he has is something like Ax, two clubs, 44, etc...but that turn bet size *sucks*. I'd rather he overbet the pot.

I don't like that he's pricing a weak ace in to call down. This may change higher up but at the 50's this is a made hand.

[Jason Strasser]

Some LAGs have a kneejerk reaction when they are checked to... They just bet. I really think you are overthinking this hand /images/graemlins/smile.gif

-Jason

[Jason Strasser]

Morgan,

I might complete in the SB... Maybe. I tend to just fold this hand. I dont even limp Axs in position preflop on the first blind level... But I also 4-table and usually you will do better with weak aces and such with reads. I have reads, but not as good as they would be if I concentrated fully.

-Jason

[Jason Strasser]

Lori, you get a present. KQo.

-Jason

[adanthar]

Haha. Yeah, figures.

This and the horrid HU I just played against Lloyd tonight means I need to go study some more hand histories /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Lloyd]

Oh, that was you! I didn't want to ask for your 2+2 name. Glad to play with you. Let me know if you have any comments on my play.

[Stoneii]

although A2s was fine by the river card /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[sahaguje]

Hi,

I really like min raising on river here. Only 22, 33 and a T beats you, since you have top two pairs, and there is no way he has a better kicker than you, since he didnt raise preflop (and he seems to do so with AJ, the worse A that beats you).
A lot of LAGs raise preflop with any PP. If you think it is the case here, then only a T can beat you, and you will be paid by any A (especially by A2 and A3, since he will be soooo frustrated). Now if you think there is a chance he has 22 or 33 and did not raise with it, then raising could be a dangerous move.
Anyway, I think the river T, by preventing the opponent form having better two pair, should make you strongly consider raising, since you probably have the best A, and will be paid by A2-A8. Of course, it is not standard, but if your opponent raises with AJ and better...

See you

sahaguje

[PrayingMantis]

I play it pretty much the same, with the general read you have given.

And the fact that you've even posted this hand, is an indication for how well *some* of those limp-PF and bet-any-hand-on-the-flop-turn-river-until-your-opponent-folds kind of of players can do sometimes: very often they make others fold better hands (specifically "solid players", who are looking for "playing good hands").

There are many kinds of LAGs, IMO. Some are very different than others. Some (few) are extremely dangarous, others are plain stupid (but in SNG poker, stupid is sometimes dangarous too). Against certain typs of LAGs I'll give up certain hands, even if I have a feeling my opponent is marginally behind (it's not the case here, since it's a relatively clear edge spot, IMO). Against others I might push very small edges myself.

[Toro]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi,

I really like min raising on river here. Only 22, 33 and a T beats you, since you have top two pairs, and there is no way he has a better kicker than you, since he didnt raise preflop (and he seems to do so with AJ, the worse A that beats you).
A lot of LAGs raise preflop with any PP. If you think it is the case here, then only a T can beat you, and you will be paid by any A (especially by A2 and A3, since he will be soooo frustrated). Now if you think there is a chance he has 22 or 33 and did not raise with it, then raising could be a dangerous move.
Anyway, I think the river T, by preventing the opponent form having better two pair, should make you strongly consider raising, since you probably have the best A, and will be paid by A2-A8. Of course, it is not standard, but if your opponent raises with AJ and better...

See you

sahaguje

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree with raising the River. I like to call here so he has to show his bluff. If you raise the River, you give him the opportunity to fold.

[lorinda]

you give him the opportunity to fold.

and to push, which really makes you think hard.

Lori

[Toro]

Very good point. Didn't even think of that.

[rybones]

[ QUOTE ]
Some LAGs have a kneejerk reaction when they are checked to... They just bet. I really think you are overthinking this hand

-Jason




[/ QUOTE ]

I need to print this and put it on my computer. This should help me in three ways.

1) when I am lag and taking a stab at the pot, I need to take take better stabs on the turn or check.

2) when other lags are betting I can just call. If I had your hand I would have re-raised and then the lag comes over the top and I am put to the test.

3) When others are betting, I can just call. I often see this smallish raise and see it as a trap and fold.

Thanks for this thread Jason and all who responded.

Ryan