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View Full Version : Knocked out with 88, final 2 tables


09-04-2001, 08:58 PM
Now I won't make excuses about being tired and otherwise mentally occupied with other things.......BUT...was this truly horrible end game play on my part or what? (No "or what" about it...beat me up even more so I will NEVER do this kind of thing again!!!!!!!!)


Sat. night, Garden City, just about to consolidate to 2 tables in the $120 buy in, $100 rebuy spread limit tourney, with 120 entrants. Essentially, it is close to being a "No Limit" tourney at this point, and has been for several rounds.


I have approx. T$4800, blinds $200 and $400. Limits, $400 to $4,000. I have enough to very likely cruise to a "money" spot if I throw off every hand for a few rounds. I have been playing very well and very solid throughout, in spite of getting very poor cards, and very little "luck". I am quite happy to have gotten this far with no real "hands".


Player 5 who has been making some plays and has a huge stack, brings it in for $2,000 raise. In cutoff position I look down to find pocket 88's. I muck it of course without even thinking twice. Blinds fold. Player 6 flips over an A,J off. About what I expected.


Next hand, same player announces "Same raise" and brings it in for $2,000 again. All fold after, I am on the button now, and look down to find.... 88's again!


I think he is on Ace Big again, and I call his 2,000, hoping to see rags so I can go all in, and take a nice pot with which I might be able to do some battle at the final table.


Flop is rags, 4,5,10 rainbow. Player 5 (now) checks. I go all in my remaining $2,800. He immediately calls, flips over pocket 10's for a set. I'm out.


My truly horrible mistakes.


1) I had that absurd and unreliable "gut feeling" that an 8 was coming on the flop. Such instincts have served me well when it comes to player tells. But these "vibs" are notoriously and clearly useless when it comes to predicitng flops.


2) What could I have been thinking, jeapordizing my potential money position with pocket 88's, against a dominant stack, when he showed such strength? Surely I would have had many better opportunities. I had made no such stupid plays to this point.


3) Even if I had a good read and he was on A,J, A,Q K,Q, small pair, or something like that, the call itself was an incredibly weak play.


If I was coming in, I should have at least either gone "all in" raise, or stayed out. All in would have been a weak play too, because I didn't really have enough chips to overbet his raise substantially, with a large enough re-raise.


4) When he checked to me, he set the trap. If he had no hand, he was just as likley to make a large bet as not, maybe moreso. I fell right into the trap, and bet all into him.


What else was wrong with this play? I still can't believe I did it. It was as if an alternate personality took over!


All the way home I kept murmering to myself, "what in the hell were you thinking, you moron???"


Has anyone else ever played their "A" game very well through 80% of a tourney, and then had a complete mental meltdown for no apparent reason?

09-05-2001, 10:51 AM
You're right, there's no good way to play your hand, given the situation, so folding would've been correct.


As you say, you don't have enough to raise him off his hand preflop, and you expect to be in a coin toss situation, so why toss a coin for all of your chips? If you were going to play the hand, then I do prefer your play of just calling (as long as you were sure the blind wouldn't come in without a reraise) and betting the flop. If he has something like KQ after that flop, he will probably fold, and you should be happy when he does, as he's getting the right price to call.


Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

09-05-2001, 02:47 PM
BB,


I did this exact thing at Lucky Chances last Sunday. I had a modest stack of chips and figured I could probably muck everything and make the final table. Once I was there, I'd have to take a chance, but at least I wouldn't be down the entrance money. Then I looked down and saw my A9 suited and went crazy. I ended up losing to A3 who matched his kicker for a full-house. I had him pegged for a low kicker, but didn't raise him to get him out -- I was so thrilled that I had a great read on him that I forgot how to bet! I had $2750 worth of tournament chips and I lost it all in one hand! What was I thinking? I was looking at everyone else $500 chips and thinking I needed more money to compete with them. Well, turns out I lost it all and left early. I played a great game and then tossed it all away at the end. But I made notes about my play and I've been reviewing it for this last week, so I can tell you I won't do it again!


Good luck!

09-05-2001, 07:28 PM
Dear BBeet,


Sorry to hear that you've had one of those one in a million experiences, i.e. getting knocked out of a tournament at almost the 2nd table. It has probably been at least a week since that happened to me.


Most of us don't win most of the tournaments we play. Which means, of course, that most of us get knocked out before reaching the money, most of the time. You were still some distance from the money so your action was justified if your intent was to reach the final table with more than "a chip and a chair."


I don't think 8's are a very strong hand, but you have about even odds to beat anything else that isn't a bigger pocket pair. A raise in front of you could mean a bigger pair or someone trying to steal. You made a judgement call and played it correctly. You just ran into a better hand. Better luck next time!

09-06-2001, 12:44 PM
I agree with you that folding 88 is the best option. You have enough chips not to gamble on a 50/50 shot assuming he has 2 overcards.


The tough thing about NL tournies is that it only takes 1 mistake to get busted out. It always hurts more when you are close to the money. And yeah I have made my share of mistakes!


What a strange tourney. I have not heard of a spread limit tourney. Why don't they play either limit or NL?


Ken Poklitar

09-06-2001, 01:52 PM
>>>What a strange tourney. I have not heard of a spread limit tourney. Why don't they play either limit or NL? <<


Normally their tourneys are all limit HE. They had a special series going, and usually have a spread limit. The reason is that the Santa Clara Valley doesn't allow them to spread "no limit" so spread limit is as close as they can do it. It's always big blind to 10X big blind spread. Closest we can get to no limit at Bay 101 and Garden City.