Top two pair on the flop...what to do?

[Triple C]

1/2 NL with stack of ~$200.

UTG calls for $2 along with 2 others. Hero on the button looks down to find A /images/graemlins/heart.gif5 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. Hero calls and blinds complete. 6 to the flop for $2 each.

Flop comes A /images/graemlins/spade.gif4 /images/graemlins/spade.gif5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif.

Blinds check. UTG glances at his chips, and reaches for them before checking. MP player thinks and bets $10. 2 others fold. (What should the Hero do?) In any case, the Hero raises to $30. Both blinds fold. UTG raises to $60. MP player rolls his eyes and folds with frustration. What should the Hero do?

(UTG player has ~$350)

[Tilt]

Well, it matters a lot whether you are up against good players who think you are TAG here. If so, fold. If not, and the players are marginal/bad, push it all across the table. The only hand you won't push to is a small set. 6s7s is a coin flip, but a bad player would probably just call with that. AQ, AK played poorly, A4 - there are lots of possibilities you have beat against a school of fish. It sounds like that is where you are based on your description of player and his obvious tell.

[fireman664]

well....fold preflop.

with that said, you really cant ask for a much better flop than what you got with that hand. You wanted to play the hand, you hit the hand....I'd push and put him on a tough call, or make him fold his semi-bluff at the flush draw. Like I said though, me personally, I dont see much of an upside to playing potentially dominated unsuited hands, even with position.... but some players can turn a profit with any ace.

Id like to see you results though

[Triple C]

The preflop decision wasn't the greatest...this is basically a terrible hand multiway.

But the question is do you think he's reraised on a semi-bluff flush draw?

It's possible of course, but I haven't seen anyone make that play very often. In addition, I could be looking at a semibluff straight flush draw (6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif) but that also doesn't strike me.

My thoughts are that there's a high likelihood that he's flopped a set, straight, or two pair himself. I think there's a small likelihood that he's playing AK (poorly IMO) or has a draw of some sort.

So I am not sure about pushing him all in. I think the chances of him folding are extremely small given his action. Basically, I'd have to hope that I've already got him beat and he's not going to catch if he's drawing.

[Triple C]

Hero calls.

Turn is J /images/graemlins/spade.gif.

UTG bets $75. Pot is $212. Hero looks down and sees his own stack of ~$120.

What to do now?

[Tilt]

Thats why you push on the flop. You decide then whether you are up against a set, and if you decide not, then dont mess around calling trying to guess what kind of draw or AX combo you are up against.

That bet is not that strong, Id still push, I think you are up against AK, A4, or another A5. You still have a strong hand, you even have a few outs against your worst fears, and there is plenty of money in the pot. But you have to give him an opportunity to fold. Even if he has a set, you might scare him off. And his AK will be moving to mucksville when you make that move.

Now I think in the long-run here you are beat a good 50% of the time against decent players, but the play is still +EV.

[Triple C]

Right, I didn't consider that I was up against a set. Although I didn't push on the flop, I did do what you suggest (push all in) on the turn. See Results Part 2.

[Triple C]

Hero raises all in, UTG calls.

Board is A /images/graemlins/spade.gif4 /images/graemlins/spade.gif5 /images/graemlins/heart.gifJ /images/graemlins/spade.gif

UTG turns over 2 /images/graemlins/club.gif3 /images/graemlins/club.gif for a flopped straight.

River is a blank. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

I spent the next 30 minutes cursing at myself for not getting away from this hand at his turn bet. I made the all in raise because it was clear that he wasn't on a flush draw, however, I didn't consider the possibilites of a straight or set seriously enough. When do you think I should have gotten away from this hand? Would you have pushed all in on the flop anyway (not knowing his cards), given that he has check-reraised?

I think the appropriate time to drop it is either on the flop or to the turn bet. I don't have enough chips to push him out of the hand at that point.

Comments?

[swolfe]

well, like others have said, the appropriate place to drop this would have been pre-flop. especially in a crazy game where people play 23s from UTG.

i've found two-pair to be less than lucrative. it's a bit better when they're not connected (like what you have), since hitting both connectors could give you a second best hand to a straight draw. you still have a coordinated board though with both straight and flush possibilities, and there's always the danger of a small pocket pair jumping out and biting you with a set. there's a reason for the saying "no set, no bet".

[creedofhubris]

Fold A5o preflop.

Once you've called and gotten raised, either reraise him or fold; don't call.

As to call or push; depends on how bad/aggressive player is. He's plenty bad if he's playing 32 UTG, so I would have to call him, unless he very rarely bets or raises, in which case i fold.