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View Full Version : Which all-in do you like better?


otnemem
11-16-2004, 11:05 AM
Foxwoods main event: after a brutal hand that cost me nearly 5/6 of my 18,000 chip stack, I find myself very short stacked. The following hands are both at the 150-300 level, 50 antes. They are not necessarily in the order that they occurred (my stack was moving up and down between 2000 and 6000 a lot, so stack size won't give it away, either). I'd like to know what the consensus here is on which is the better move. Here it goes...

Hand One
Hero has 4200. At UTG+3, raises to 900 with 6-6. Jim Miller raises on button to 4500. Folds back to Hero. All in?

Hand Two
Hero has 2200 in the big blind. Two or three LP limpers. Hero has JQo. All in?

Results below in white. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

<font color="white"> I ended up folding to Miller's raise, heeding my brain's warning that I'm either barely ahead or light years behind. And, you guessed it, I pushed with QJo in the BB hoping to get the limpers to lay down. One of them pushes all in, and I can't catch a card to beat his pocket deuces. I go bye-bye.

nsj
11-16-2004, 11:10 AM
Hand One: What does Hero have?
Hand Two: Check, push or check-raise all in on the flop it hits you.

otnemem
11-16-2004, 11:13 AM
Sorry, guess it wasn't clear. In Hand One, Hero is UTG+3 with 6-6. Hope that makes it easier. Also, I don't necessarily want to know the best course of actions in each situation. I'd like to know which is the better spot for an all-in. Thanks.

otnemem
11-16-2004, 12:56 PM
Anyone? No? A little insight?

Killer Mike
11-16-2004, 01:32 PM
I probably would have folded the 6s and pushed with the QJ, just because you'd be calling all-in with the 6s instead of pushing yourself with QJo. I'd be curious to see what others had to say about Miller's reraise considering he was on the button. It seems like a bit of an overbet to me, especially since he'd have position on you after the flop. Then again, any other respectable reraise would be for half your stack and you'd be pot committed anyway. If I had to pick one of your reads, I'd guess that you were a little ahead instead of far behind. How big was Miller's stack at the time?

Just my VERY humble opinion. I'd really like to hear what the other folks have to say about this one.

zaphod
11-16-2004, 01:40 PM
None of these hands looks like all in candidates to me.
It would be nice with some more info, how many players are left, average stack...

Hand 1: You have to fold here.

Hand 2:I would not push here, unless i thought that i might get the other players to fold, and even then i would have to be pretty certain that they would fold.
So check and see the flop would be my plan.
So both hands looks like bad places to go all in IMHO.

otnemem
11-16-2004, 03:05 PM
Additional info:

Both of the situations were on day one (well, two, actually, but day one for me). About 200 (i think) of the 335 starters from that day. Five minutes left in level five, so I figure this is the last moment that a 2200 stack might be difficult for a limper to call. Next level is 200-400, 50 ante I think. In Hand Two, the first limper would have to call 2200 for a 3700 pot. Someone who's good with odds might want to decipher this. With deuces, he's actually behind by .2% (50.2 to 49.8) before the flop to my JQo. He's getting basically 1.7 to 1 on the call. So what does this mean? As long as he's getting even money, he has a good call? So if he were calling 2200 for 2500, is that still a call if he puts me on overcards?

kuro
11-17-2004, 01:20 PM
1) 66 is probably a hand that I'd fold utg+3 with that stack size. When you opened with a standard raise of 3xbb, you're committing 1/5 of your stack for a hand that you're not willing to call a reraise with and that you're going to have a hard time following through with to the river when you don't hit a set if the flop gets any action at all. Best you can probably hope to do is pick up the blinds with it and you're a little too far off the button for a blind steal.

So I think you fold this or maybe limp and then call a raise and maybe push if there's no paint regardless of if you hit your set based on your read.

2) This is an easy all-in. Do you remember what your hand was when you were UTG? It might have been better to go all in with that hand because you pick up the blinds if you win and sometimes someone with a very marginal hand will go in behind you and protect you from a better hand. You got lucky to pick up a hand as good as you did in the blinds.

ZootMurph
11-17-2004, 01:42 PM
There are only a few situations in which I'd raise with 66 in early position.

1) Table is real tight.
2) I'm a big stack.
3) It's bubble time.
4) Table is playing shorthanded.

So, I'd call the blind with 66, and fold to a raise (or push if you have some kind of read).

With QJo in BB with several limpers, I much prefer to check it and hope I hit a good enough flop to suck in two of them in order to triple up. Although in bad shape, I'm still alive if I don't hit my hand. Unless the table is playing real tight and I'm 80% sure I will take the pot right there, I just check. As a 2+2er, you should see the flop every chance you get, since you will probably be able to outplay most players. At least, that's the way I look at it.