tournament question

sorry if you read this twice -- i posted it accidentally in High Limit. ...


Guys (meant inclusively, not as a gender judgement :-) --


I'm 22 years old and have been playing poker for a little over a year -- so yes, i'm certainly less experienced than most. But, I'm a voracious reader (have been through Jones' Low-Limit book, Skansky's Adv. Hold Em book, several times) and have been playing three or four times a week, now in the medium limits (5-10 with a kill or 10-20 w/1/2 kill) with consistent success.


My question here, though, is about tournament strategy. I would definitely classify myself as a tight-aggressive player in live games -- i'm not afraid to fold, am very selective about the hands I play and avoid marginal situations -- i'm attracted to the game by the prospect of showing a profit, and so I avoid situations where I don't have the best of it most of the way.


Initially, I had a very impressive tournament record -- placed top 3 or better in 5 of my first 7 tournaments (either limit or n/l hold em, all of them) but unfortuantely I didn't keep a good record of HOW i played -- and I'm thinking that perhaps I played looser then, when I was less experienced ...


basically, of late, I've hit a dry run in tournaments, and in most cases, I feel that it's because I'm not playing ENOUGH hands -- which I feel is an odd statement to make about poker in general. Do you guys who have consistent tournament success, find yourselves playing more loosely in the early going to gather chips? In the last tourney I played (mon. night limit at Foxwoods), I felt like I busted out, but never really got beat on a hand that cost me a lot. More like I got blinded out over the course of two and half hours, if you know what i mean. Specifically, i'm wondering if I should be as quick to lay down middle-pair (particularly in short-handed pot), for example, which I would not hesitate to do in a ring game. Of course, if the pot is shorthanded, that usually indicates a raise pre-flop, so middle pair is probably worth even less ... But how about small suited connectors? or laying down a medium pair (8s, 9s, etc) with an overcard on board and action in front?


I think you guys probably know what I'm getting at - just wondering if I'm thinking the wrong way, or the cards aren't coming for me ...


thanks, sam

I think you definately should play more hands during the rebuy periods, especially in no-limit.I know a few players that play every hand during the rebuy period in NL. I don't go quite that far, but I certainly lower my starting hand requirements. It's easier in NL because there is not a fixed ROI for a particular hand like there is in limit. For example, to make middle pairs profitable in limit, you need like 8 to 1 or such to get correct odds on flopping a set, but in NL you can get what you need from just 1 caller because you can double thru.


Once the rebuy period is done, you have to return to a more sensible hand selection, pick your spots and hope for the best.


I wouldn't worry too much about the dry spell, we all hit them. If your game is solid and you have a past history of performance, you'll get there again.


Keep playing hard!

your question is rather general---see my post to above question


guess the general answer would be yes...but it depends upon other factors such as position

I appreciate the responses, but what about in Limit? Do people lower their starting requirements? I read a tournament poker book (by Suzuki, I think?) that recommended that in single-rebuy tournaments a player should play nothing but AA, KK and AK during the first 30 min or so -- then, in the next 30 min he should play more aggressively so as to "gather chips". My problem with this is that it's difficult to "gather chips" when the limits have increased but my stack has not -- basically, this is relying on the idea that 1. you'll get a premium hand like those three during the first 30 min (no guarantee) 2. That you'll win it (no need to comment on this - we've all seen the goods get cracked) and 3. that if you do win, you'll win a reasonable amount of money and not merely the blinds, for example. Thus, i'm not sure about the validity of this philosophy ... does anyone else have a sort of "philosophy" they use in the early stages of limit tourneys?


best, sam

I am a long time lurker who plays tournaments occasionally so my strategy is probably not that brilliant.


In the tournaments I play (mostly PL and NL), I play very tight for the first half of the rebuy period. The reason for this is that I don't want to end up rebuying lots of times because then the prize structure will not cover the investment in this tournament (as opposed to over the long term).


I then loosen up a lot for the second half of the rebuy period to try to build a stack. My experience (in low cost tournies with 70 odd runners) is that if you are very short stacked (as the blinds increase quickly) at this stage you are basically history.


After that, tight aggressive play til the final table. :-)


What do people reckon on this strategy?

I don't like any strategy that suggest things like play looser during the rebuy, or play tighter because you don't want to rebuy too much, or anything like that.


I prefer to play each hand independently as a unique situation. I try to analyze each situation, and play those that offer +EV. Until you get near the money positions, chip EV and money EV are basically identical. So, you play the hand as you would in a ring game, given the playing styles of your opponents, as well as everybody's chip counts. Once you get near the money, you need to take into account the concept of the chips you win being worth less than the chips you lose, meaning you need more than a slight edge to justify a play.


The big difference that new tourney players run into is the short-stack issue. Once you get past the first few levels, it is common for either you or one or more of your opponents to be short-stacked. This has a dramatic affect on your strategy, as drawing hands go down in value, and so-called trouble hands go up, since when these players are in the pot they cannot win or lose bets on later rounds. That is, implied odds diminish, as well as reverse implied odds. Many ring game players moving into tournaments lose track of the fact that their normal plays assume that they and the opponent(s) will all be betting, calling, and even folding on the turn and river, while in the tourney often somebody is all-in before then.


Always be mindful of your stack size, as well as all your opponents. When the dealer is shuffling and hasn't yet dealt is a great time to look at everybody's stack and remind yourself where they're at.


Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)