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View Full Version : Multi-Tabling Law of Diminishing Returns


Folding Pete
11-16-2004, 03:33 AM
Mulit-tabling is great and as a low limit (mostly $2/4) grinder I love it but at what point does adding an extra table actually decrease your hourly profits. I've recently got my second monitor and have been playing up to 8 games simultaneously. There must be a point when the added stress of another table reduces rather than increases your earn.

I can think of at least 4 major factors to take into account.

In order of importance:

1. Table management

I play low limit so I like to be on the loosest tables with the biggest pots that I can find. That's how I make my profits, players who make more and bigger errors than me. This means continually scanning the lobbies getting on waiting lists then re-evaluating tables when you are called to them. Also, of course, you have to monitor the tables one is at in case they are starting to go -EV. When you do want to switch tables it will take longer to find another good table because of your other table obligations.

Playing many tables means you have significantly less time for this type of table housekeeping.

2. Quality of Play

Obviously the more tables you have, the less time you have to make decisions and quality of play will decrease. For example because you have folded 10 hands straight you don't notice that a certain player is raising every hand and you fold again with A10 facing a raise from him.

If you flop a big hand in a raised flop you hardly have time to scroll back in the dealer chat to find out who & where the preflop raiser was before deciding to bet out or checkraise.

You have little time to make or read player notes and it takes a lot longer to get a handle on any one particular player.

Hitting raise instead of fold with 72off because of AA on a different table...

3. Hands per hour

Though you may add an extra table your hands per hour won't increase in a linear fashion. Now with many tables open you slow down play on all your tables as you try to cope with all the playing/table management decisions you have to make. Slower table changes also mean less hands per table per hour. I have noticed that now it does take a significantly longer time to hit 1000 hands on four Party tables now that I have 1 to 4 extra tables to nurse.

You also lose $ in the instances when you time out, whilst deeply involved with a hand at another table.

4. Rake Back

Now you may have rake back\bonuses working in your favour for each extra table. But again your overall hands per table per hour does decrease due to slowing down of play and slower table changes. Bonuses will tap out pretty quickly multi-tabling so that leaves a very small rake back in your favour.

As I said I'm trying 8 tables but that leaves no room display for a lobby, of about 3 or 4 lobbies. This seriously impacts table selection & management. So I'm thinking that for low limit, the way I play, the point of diminishing returns is in the area of 5 to 7 tables.

Any thoughts? At what level and limits is the point of your diminishing return.

Always be folding

daryn
11-16-2004, 05:30 AM
you look at the lobby while you play?

itsmarty
11-16-2004, 01:17 PM
I never play more than two tables, myself. I'm always on a couple of waiting lists, but when I sit at the third I drop one of the old ones as the blinds come around.

I've tried playing more, but since I only play in the evenings, I need a level of activity that will allow me to talk to my wife, throw some wood on the fire, let the dog out, etc. It's actually helped me move up limits, because I want to make enough money to make it worth the time, but don't want to add tables and tie myself to my seat.

There are way too many factors involved to come up with a good rule of thumb. Some people are very zealous about table selection, some are extremely dilligent about taking notes, and some just like to click as fast as possible and watch the money come in.

Martin

Piers
11-16-2004, 04:31 PM
[ QUOTE ]

Any thoughts? At what level and limits is the point of your diminishing return.


[/ QUOTE ]

It is obviously going to vary depending on who your are, what sites you are playing, what your monitor arrangement is etc.

I suspect under optimal conditions it is likely somewhere in the teens. I am confidence its more than ten, as I have been comfortably playing eight to ten games since I bought a 23” flat screen a couple of months ago. I play across two LCD monitors and use a third CRT for the lobbies. However a tech upgrade is imminent.

For low limit games I do not think table selection is so important as the bonus is worth more than what you could gain by table selection. You probably loose more by flubbing around and not playing then you gain by table selection. Playing middle limit of course is of course a completely different ballgame.

All in all, $90 an hour playing just $1/2 is not too unreasonable.

Folding Pete
11-16-2004, 06:57 PM
I don't read the lobby but I like to scan the lobby when I have the chance. For example I play $2/$4 at party and I like to be on the waiting list for every $2/$4 that has a pot average $34 and higher. A lot of tables that one sits at may show a high pot average but they don't pan out that way so I like to have options for potentially better tables. It does however mean a lot of extra work. Getting on lists and then evaluating games once one is called.

cbfair
11-16-2004, 07:20 PM
[ QUOTE ]
All in all, $90 an hour playing just $1/2 is not too unreasonable.

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't that 4.5BB per hour per table across 10 tables? That's around 9BB/100 assuming 50 hands/hour/table.

Seems a bit high; is my math off?

Rah
11-16-2004, 07:36 PM
There is no law of diminishing returns.
In economics there is one about diminishing *marginal* returns though.

Piers
11-16-2004, 09:12 PM
I am assuming a $5ph bonus, perhaps $4ph would be better?

Blarg
11-16-2004, 09:12 PM
[ QUOTE ]
All in all, $90 an hour playing just $1/2 is not too unreasonable.

[/ QUOTE ]

Holy Mother of God!

Are you figuring $10/hr on 9 tables? For 5 BB/hr on each table?

$90/hr at $1/2 sounds like an insane rate of return. I'd love to see anyone's figures of doing that for any kind of sustained period.

MMMMMM
11-16-2004, 09:47 PM
Hi Piers,

Now I am curious: how do you get the third monitor for the lobbies? I have a video card with dual output so I can play up to 8 tables, but I don't envision a way to get a third monitor in there. How can it be done?

Rushmore
11-16-2004, 10:23 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Now I am curious: how do you get the third monitor for the lobbies? I have a video card with dual output so I can play up to 8 tables, but I don't envision a way to get a third monitor in there. How can it be done?

[/ QUOTE ]

At worst, you can install another video card into any empty port.

Piers
11-16-2004, 11:39 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Now I am curious: how do you get the third monitor for the lobbies? I have a video card with dual output so I can play up to 8 tables, but I don't envision a way to get a third monitor in there. How can it be done?

[/ QUOTE ]

Four ways.

Three vides cards each of which take one monitor.
Two video cards one of which takes two monitors.
One video card that takes four monitors. One slot open.

You could also use more than one PC. I have been doing that a lot reacently, so that I can play on Absolute.

Blarg
11-17-2004, 05:26 AM
I'd still like to see the 90/hr at 1/2 on someone's Pokertracker one day.

Piers
11-17-2004, 11:54 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I'd still like to see the 90/hr at 1/2 on someone's Pokertracker one day.

[/ QUOTE ]

It would only show up as $40 per hour.

cbfair
11-17-2004, 12:30 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd still like to see the 90/hr at 1/2 on someone's Pokertracker one day.

[/ QUOTE ]

It would only show up as $40 per hour.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please state your "not unreasonable" estimations in terms of bb/100 hands so we can all clearly understand what you're claiming.

Piers
11-17-2004, 12:45 PM
10 tables, 2BB per hour per table, clearing around $5 per hour in bonus on each table.

Blarg
11-17-2004, 10:28 PM
What a gyp.