AQ, heads-up.

[nepenthe]

This is a hand from my short & sweet 3/6 session earlier tonight. MP seems like the typical Party fish.

I'm in BB with AQ offsuit and MP open-limps. Folded to me, I raise, MP calls.

Flop: Q x x, two spades. I don't have any spades.

I bet, MP raises, I call.

Turn: another low blank completing the flush.

I check, MP bets, I checkraise, MP 3-bets, I fold.

[Rubeskies]

If you check/call, check/call you get to see the river card and the showdown for the same number of bets, yes?

Also, it's not really a blank if it completes the flush right?

[nepenthe]

[ QUOTE ]
If you check/call, check/call you get to see the river card and the showdown for the same number of bets, yes?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, and I often do take the c/c line with a less than decent holding. However I believe this isn't the time or place to do it. At the turn, at least until I am 3-bet, I believe I am ahead with my TPTK a majority of the time.

While I would like to see a showdown with this hand, I am not satisfied with seeing a showdown as cheaply as possible - not on this board, heads-up, where the only real threat I can see is the flush which my opponent won't have over 50% of the time.

I raised the turn (intending to fold to a 3-bet) in this situation for reasons somewhat analogous to, though distinguishable from, those via which I may bet a 4-flush river with my set (intending to fold to a raise) out of position. It's all about placing a higher priority upon maximizing my value those times I am ahead, as opposed to minimizing my losses those times I am behind, especially when I believe I am ahead a majority of the time as I did in the instant situation.

The only caveat is that I need to trust my opponent enough to be able to make the laydown after his 3-bet. I concede that this is a judgment call, and one that is not correct all of the time.

[xxxxx]

You think MP raised the flop with a flush draw. Maybe he has two low pair and you have outs.

[gaming_mouse]

How come you didn't 3-bet the flop?

His most likely holdings are a flush draw, Q with weaker kicker, or even 2nd pair (HU his raise would make sense). The 3-bet makes sense in all these cases, right?

Thanks for further explanation,
gm

[nepenthe]

OK, got a hold of my play records and the precise cards in sequential order were as follows:

Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

I don't think a low two pair excluding the Q is very likely given this board structure, and I seriously doubt opponent would raise the flop with 56. I was thinking flush or set.

[Shillx]

Why not fire away on the turn, and fold to a raise?

Brad

[nepenthe]

[ QUOTE ]
How come you didn't 3-bet the flop?

His most likely holdings are a flush draw, Q with weaker kicker, or even 2nd pair (HU his raise would make sense). The 3-bet makes sense in all these cases, right?

Thanks for further explanation,
gm

[/ QUOTE ]

Hello gm,

I decided that waiting for the turn to raise would give me more value in this case for several reasons:

- I'm heads-up. I have little to nothing to protect if my hand is indeed best.
- If he has top pair with a worse kicker, he is not going anywhere, nor do I want him to. Might as well charge him on the expensive street.
- If he raised with a flush draw, I will charge him more by raising the turn.
- He doesn't have a flush draw most of the time. If he does and he hits, then he hits. This hand is now strictly about maximizing gains when I am ahead.
- If I show weakness at the flop, I am quite certain opponent will bet a worse hand at the turn, with or without a flush draw.

That said, there is nothing wrong with 3-betting this flop; it would probably be the default play here.

[nepenthe]

[ QUOTE ]
Why not fire away on the turn, and fold to a raise?

Brad

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Brad,

Because that would be too weak and I would be folding based on a far less reliable information assuming a typical 3/6 opponent. A turn raise, heads-up, with position, even on a flush board, is a fairly easy move to make for someone with just top pair or even less, and is certainly miles apart from a 3-bet of a turn checkraise.

If I had taken the line you suggested, I would be more inclined to call down a turn raise and subsequent river bet.

[gaming_mouse]

[ QUOTE ]

That said, there is nothing wrong with 3-betting this flop; it would probably be the default play here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice analysis though. In fact, you've convinced me that the default play is inferior. I guess I was thrown by the fact that I knew he ended up ahead, so I missed the value which you would ordinarily gain by waiting.

gm

[Shillx]

The problem here is if he has something like Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif J /images/graemlins/spade.gif, you are risking giving a free card. I don't play 3/6, but at 5/10 I find that people for the most part aren't fooling around here. A select few are and you have to adjust to their play. A typical party fish is not putting a move on you here IMO. I honestly think that you can bet and fold to a raise, plus you do not risk giving a free card. I might be totally wrong here, but I really think you invested 1 BB too much.

Brad

[nepenthe]

[ QUOTE ]
The problem here is if he has something like Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif J /images/graemlins/spade.gif , you are risking giving a free card.

[/ QUOTE ]

But if he has the hand you describe, he is most certainly not taking a free card when I show weakness on the flop by just calling his raise.

I still believe that bet-folding this turn is much too weak, because I can see a hand like Q /images/graemlins/club.gifK /images/graemlins/spade.gif raising the turn for value - especially given that a stop-n-go after a PFR by me seems like a decidedly fishy move from a holding like T /images/graemlins/club.gifT /images/graemlins/spade.gif

[Shillx]

If you feel that you made the right play then I commend you. I don't know if my line is right, but I think you are probably a bit to worried that a "typical party fish" will make a play on you.

Brad