PDA

View Full Version : Ghostwriting on Dre's 2001 question


ilya
11-16-2004, 12:21 AM
Ok, so I see that Jay-Z is credited on "Still D.R.E." Couple questions: How do people know that Jay-Z actually wrote -- i.e., not just edited -- Dre's verse? Are there other rhymes on the album that Jay-Z is supposed to have written? If so, why is he credited on "Still D.R.E." but not on the others? Also, is there any evidence for claims like the one that Eminem wrote other Dre rhymes on the album? I mean hard evidence. IMO a similarity in cadence is not proof enough.

I'd also be very curious to hear about other *well-documented* cases of ghostwriting/heavy editing in hip-hop.

bonanz
11-16-2004, 12:33 AM
[ QUOTE ]
IMO a similarity in cadence is not proof enough.

[/ QUOTE ]

man i can really tell most of the time who wrote some [censored] for someone. its a fun game to play for puffy and dre. you can almost hear it plain as day who wrote it. most of the time the person is featured on the song, but not always.

as far as still d.r.e. goes i saw an interview where dre was complimenting jay-z on his technique saying that jay came up with some [censored] talking about benzes and some other [censored] and dre sent it back, and jay made it more "west coast"

but just listen you can hear it

Malone Brown
11-16-2004, 12:43 AM
Well supposidly Mad Skillz ghostwrites for many commercial rappers (Jay-z, will smith, Jermain Dupri, mase, P.diddy etc.) Download his song called Ghostwriter. He talks about all the [censored] he goes through as a ghostwriter but leaves names out (it's not a bad song either).
Malone

ThaSaltCracka
11-16-2004, 12:43 AM
Weasel said Royce did some writing for that album too. I had heard in a few magazines that Jay did a lot of writing on the album though, in fact Suge clowns on Dre in some diss song saying Jay wrote your rhymes, or something like that.

ThaSaltCracka
11-16-2004, 12:46 AM
Yeah he also wrote for Talib Kweli too. He goes by the name Skillz now, and he is making his name by battling Shaq /images/graemlins/confused.gif, I saw him live he sucks.

Malone Brown
11-16-2004, 12:50 AM
I haven't heard much from him besides that Ghostwriter track from one of the Soundbombing Lps. Flow wasn't too bad on that track.

Rob Blackburn
11-16-2004, 01:08 AM
The problem for Mad Skillz is that his one shot was back in 94-ish and Jive f-ed him on the promo for that album, I think the production value of the album was average as well, so it kinda gave him the double whammy. When that first album busted, he didn't really have any run to keep taht big label deal, he wasn't from a hip-hop mecca or have big connections, all he had was his big battle win against Supernat.

I don't think any MC can transcend bad production, but it is very easy for a subpar to get large with great production.

ilya
11-16-2004, 01:11 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Weasel said Royce did some writing for that album too. I had heard in a few magazines that Jay did a lot of writing on the album though, in fact Suge clowns on Dre in some diss song saying Jay wrote your rhymes, or something like that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Royce? Royce Da 5'9"?! I'd need some damn hard evidence before I believed that. That dude can't write his own rhymes.

If Jay wrote other songs on the album, why isn't he credited on them as well?

I don't see where Dre's verse on "Still D.R.E." sounds particularly Jay-ish. I guess people think it's really obvious? Can someone explain why? I haven't compared the lyrics vs. Chronic vs. NWA vs. Jay-Z's own albums that closely, but from a brief look the similarity doesn't strike me.

bonanz
11-16-2004, 01:58 AM
man you can't here it? maybe you don't listen to jay enough or soemthign. put on that track and close your eyes, its jay all over. also i htink he did taht "things just aint the same for gangstas" song where later a part 2 or whatever turned up on blueprint 2 because i get the feeling jay loved the beat/song so much he had to come out of the shadows and do his own thing over it as himself /images/graemlins/wink.gif

bonanz
11-16-2004, 02:01 AM
whoa whoa whoa, you're saying skillz wrote for jay and talib? now that i need to see some documented evidence of. i know skillz does a lot of ghost writing and i've heard that ghostwriter song, but i don't here him allude to jay or talib anywhere...maybe point out a line or something. also he's too busy buying 1 milliion pairs of shaq's shoes at kmart with a $100 bill LMAO

BusterStacks
11-16-2004, 02:44 AM
I tell you this much, NOBODY ghost writes for Jay-Z. Jay-Z doesn't even write for Jay-Z, his rhymes are made up on the spot upon hearing the beat. Don't believe me? Look into it, it's really amazing.

ThaSaltCracka
11-16-2004, 03:42 AM
I never said skillz writes for Jay. I saw skillz at a concert last year and he said he wrote some for Talib(who also performed later) as well as some other MC's.

I also never heard Royce wrote on 2001, Weasel45 said that.

bonanz
11-16-2004, 12:04 PM
i've also heard of royce writing for dre. and someone above said skillz wrote for jay which i know is wrong, can't nobody tell me nothing new about jay.

ThaSaltCracka
11-16-2004, 12:19 PM
[ QUOTE ]
i've also heard of royce writing for dre. and someone above said skillz wrote for jay which i know is wrong, can't nobody tell me nothing new about jay.

[/ QUOTE ]
yup, Jay-z has no ghostwriters. As bustersacks said, he doesn't write anything, it all comes from the dome.

bonanz
11-16-2004, 12:40 PM
[ QUOTE ]
can't nobody tell me nothing new about jay.

[/ QUOTE ]

did you read that part? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

ThaSaltCracka
11-16-2004, 12:42 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
can't nobody tell me nothing new about jay.

[/ QUOTE ]

did you read that part? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
I was just making a statement. /images/graemlins/mad.gif /images/graemlins/wink.gif

ilya
11-16-2004, 01:23 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I tell you this much, NOBODY ghost writes for Jay-Z. Jay-Z doesn't even write for Jay-Z, his rhymes are made up on the spot upon hearing the beat. Don't believe me? Look into it, it's really amazing.

[/ QUOTE ]

How is it possible to "look into it"? I mean, what evidence could possibly be conclusive?

BusterStacks
11-16-2004, 01:28 PM
Wherever there are facts, there is always evidence.

ThaSaltCracka
11-16-2004, 01:30 PM
not sure where, as Bustersacks alluded to, you can find this information, but I know I have read and heard this in various interviews.

ilya
11-16-2004, 01:35 PM
[ QUOTE ]
not sure where, as Bustersacks alluded to, you can find this information, but I know I have read and heard this in various interviews.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh yeah, I've definitely heard this and read in a number of places that Jay-Z *claims* to come up with his lyrics on the spot. I just don't think I believe him.
Short of actually being inside Jay-Z brain, I see no way to conclusively determine that he doesn't compose the rhymes in his head beforehand.

BusterStacks
11-16-2004, 01:41 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
not sure where, as Bustersacks alluded to, you can find this information, but I know I have read and heard this in various interviews.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh yeah, I've definitely heard this and read in a number of places that Jay-Z *claims* to come up with his lyrics on the spot. I just don't think I believe him.
Short of actually being inside Jay-Z brain, I see no way to conclusively determine that he doesn't compose the rhymes in his head beforehand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sure all rappers compose rhymes in their head before they say them. The point isL

"who you gonna find doper than him, with no pen, just draw up inspiration."

ThaSaltCracka
11-16-2004, 01:44 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Short of actually being inside Jay-Z brain, I see no way to conclusively determine that he doesn't compose the rhymes in his head beforehand.

[/ QUOTE ] I am sure he does that, but IMO, thats pretty [censored] hard to do too. Its much easier to make sense of what you are about to rap if you write it down first.

bonanz
11-16-2004, 01:50 PM
i was always under the impression that he would just hear a beat and vibe to it and formulate in his head. not that he just spontaneously hears a beats and spits out the songs the way they are. it's funny ilya sounds angry about the claim that jay never writes anyghing down, does it really matter?

"if you pan left and right, see the man who writes checks with the hand that don't write"

BusterStacks
11-16-2004, 01:55 PM
We should have a "Best Jay-Z line" thread... it would be like 15 pages.

ThaSaltCracka
11-16-2004, 02:00 PM
[ QUOTE ]
i was always under the impression that he would just hear a beat and vibe to it and formulate in his head.

[/ QUOTE ] Yeah me too. I find it amazing that he can make so many hit songs in his head like that.

WEASEL45
11-16-2004, 02:01 PM
from this site (http://royce.rapworlds.com/enemies.shtml) i've seen it other places also


Dr.Dre:
When in 1998 when Royce was called up too dr.dres aftermath studios to work with eminem on his sslp
While Royce was at Dre Studio dre asked royce if he can Do 3 Tracks For His up coming Album called '2001'
Royce was very happy that a legends like Dre wanted Royce on there so Royce spent time recording tracks for dre & writing songs for dre as a ghost writer (Dre has loads) he recorded 3 songs with dre called 'The Throne Is Mine' 'The Way I Be Pimpin' & 'Stay In Your Place' & Royce wrote the lyrics to the song the message on 2001 witch is dre rhyming about his dead brother..It loses all meaning when you find out its not from dre's heart it was made by some one else and dre just remade it for him...anyway as a ghost writer your not meant to tell anyone that you did a track from some one..but royce in interviews always states that he did it ect...and when the cd came out...where was royce? no where! not even in the thank yous! so they claim to have no hard feelings with each other..well thats a lie..Its been 5 years sins he recorded with dre & forget in the fallout with eminem recently wouldn't u say if they was cool with each other that at less they would work with each other? Royce was also trying to get Dre on his cd too...but dre was a no show. Royce slipped up in an interview that they had to edit out as Royce dissed dre but Royce's manager thought it best that the beef between the two was kept low as it would be bad for Royce later on in life. But when talking about him being dropped from the cod he slipped out and said
'Dre My Man, Your Dead Homie!'

ilya
11-16-2004, 02:06 PM
[ QUOTE ]
it's funny ilya sounds angry about the claim that jay never writes anyghing down, does it really matter?

[/ QUOTE ]

well, yeah it matters. it's a much more impressive feat to come up with rhymes on the spot when you hear the beat than to remember&recite rhymes that you wrote in your head the night before. also, if the latter was more widely believed than the former, the rhymes would probably be held to a higher standard. getting people to believe that you write your rhymes on the spot is a brilliant idea if you're lyrically lazy or if you find your creativity drying up. if you spun it well enough, you could get people to go from feeling underwhelmed to awed about the same verse.

It also irritates me that people have been repeating this rather incredible claim as though it was beyond doubt. Without producing any evidence, I might add.

BusterStacks
11-16-2004, 02:18 PM
They rhymes are not put together before he hears the beat, let's say that. Furthermore, I don't think anyone is underwhelmed with Jay-Z's lyrical content except coffeeshop hip-hop idiots. The claim that he comes up with the rhymes on the spot is not HIS claim, it's everyone who has produced for him, been in the studio with him, or generally seen it happen. I don't know why you're so inclined not to believe it, as it is common knowledge. I guess if you can't believe it until you see it, that's your own problem, but that doesn't mean it's not true.

ilya
11-16-2004, 02:21 PM
[ QUOTE ]
from this site (http://royce.rapworlds.com/enemies.shtml) i've seen it other places also


Dr.Dre:
When in 1998 when Royce was called up too dr.dres aftermath studios to work with eminem on his sslp
While Royce was at Dre Studio dre asked royce if he can Do 3 Tracks For His up coming Album called '2001'
Royce was very happy that a legends like Dre wanted Royce on there so Royce spent time recording tracks for dre & writing songs for dre as a ghost writer (Dre has loads) he recorded 3 songs with dre called 'The Throne Is Mine' 'The Way I Be Pimpin' & 'Stay In Your Place' & Royce wrote the lyrics to the song the message on 2001 witch is dre rhyming about his dead brother..It loses all meaning when you find out its not from dre's heart it was made by some one else and dre just remade it for him...anyway as a ghost writer your not meant to tell anyone that you did a track from some one..but royce in interviews always states that he did it ect...and when the cd came out...where was royce? no where! not even in the thank yous! so they claim to have no hard feelings with each other..well thats a lie..Its been 5 years sins he recorded with dre & forget in the fallout with eminem recently wouldn't u say if they was cool with each other that at less they would work with each other? Royce was also trying to get Dre on his cd too...but dre was a no show. Royce slipped up in an interview that they had to edit out as Royce dissed dre but Royce's manager thought it best that the beef between the two was kept low as it would be bad for Royce later on in life. But when talking about him being dropped from the cod he slipped out and said
'Dre My Man, Your Dead Homie!'

[/ QUOTE ]

And you trust this site why?
Is it because the writers can't spell, or because it is "just a fan site" that has no " direct contact with [Royce] and [is] no way [sic] affiliated with him or Game/Columbia?"

bonanz
11-16-2004, 02:25 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think anyone is underwhelmed with Jay-Z's lyrical content except coffeeshop hip-hop idiots

[/ QUOTE ]

LMFAO

ilya = mad rapper?

ilya
11-16-2004, 02:30 PM
[ QUOTE ]
They rhymes are not put together before he hears the beat, let's say that. Furthermore, I don't think anyone is underwhelmed with Jay-Z's lyrical content except coffeeshop hip-hop idiots. The claim that he comes up with the rhymes on the spot is not HIS claim, it's everyone who has produced for him, been in the studio with him, or generally seen it happen. I don't know why you're so inclined not to believe it, as it is common knowledge. I guess if you can't believe it until you see it, that's your own problem, but that doesn't mean it's not true.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not inclined to believe it because it is very difficult to believe. Frankly I think all you guys who believe it are credulous fools.
As for your comment about "coffeeshop hip-hop idiots"....f you right back, agressive fanboy a-hole.

ThaSaltCracka
11-16-2004, 02:33 PM
this thread went from being cool and fun, to being completely stupid in a matter of minutes. Nice work Ilya, you probably are the Mad Rapper.

BusterStacks
11-16-2004, 02:35 PM
You're whole case is "I don't believe it". So on one hand you have producers and people who have been in the the studio who say it's true, and on the other hand we have YOU. ilya from a poker forum. doesn't believe Jay-Z comes up with his rhymes on the spot. You do see why you look like a tool right? Or do you not believe that either...

ilya
11-16-2004, 02:40 PM
[ QUOTE ]
You're whole case is "I don't believe it". So on one hand you have producers and people who have been in the the studio who say it's true, and on the other hand we have YOU. ilya from a poker forum. doesn't believe Jay-Z comes up with his rhymes on the spot. You do see why you look like a tool right? Or do you not believe that either...

[/ QUOTE ]

Whatever man.
I don't stand to gain anything from sucking up to Jay-Z, is all I know.

WEASEL45
11-16-2004, 02:40 PM
from vh1 (http://www.vh1.com/artists/news/1458381/10282002/royce_da_59.jhtml)
i dont see how you cant believe this

Eminem still appears on the hook of "Rock City," but the album is no longer being executive produced by the D12 mastermind. Eminem, who used Royce as his hype man on a number of his early tours, also secured Royce a ghostwriting position for Dr. Dre's 2001 album , as well as a spot on DJ Clue's 2001 record, The Professional 2.

BusterStacks
11-16-2004, 02:45 PM
I have something to gain by crushing idiots like you:

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/_/id/5919641

"For The Blueprint, he wrote and recorded nine songs in an inspired two-day stretch. "The songs just started happenin', comin' out of nowhere," he says. "I was in a zone." Jay's recording process itself is a bit miraculous. He picks a track, turns it up loud in the studio, then sits off to the side mumbling to himself. In minutes he's got rhymes and hooks with astounding economy and filled with his trademark double-entendres. Instantly memorized. No pen, no paper. Sometimes, he says, there are four or five songs in his head at one time. Rapper Beanie Sigel has learned to do this from being around Jay, and says it's made him a better MC. "It make your flow so wicked," Sigel says. "Without the pen and paper, your flow be so ridiculous." Adds Jay, "What I have is a gift from God. It can't be explained." This is what he means when he calls himself the God MC and Jay-Hovah."

Keep it coming...

BusterStacks
11-16-2004, 02:49 PM
http://www.celebfashions.com/jay-z.html

"
One of Jay Z's trademarks is his lyrical writing style. Jay Z makes up entire rhymes in his head without ever writing them down on paper. "No pen or paper I got my mind right, when I spit the flow it comes out tight". Jay Z is known to create an entire song in his head by listening to the sample track over and over, eventually flowing outloud when it's time to record. "

WEASEL45
11-16-2004, 02:50 PM
Why am i an idiot

BusterStacks
11-16-2004, 02:52 PM
http://www.mtv.com/shared/movies/features/j/jay_z_news_feature_110104/

"What makes Jay so fast [when he records is that] he don't write his stuff down, which tremendously helps his flow because he's not reading off of paper," Guru said. "It's already written in his head with the flow of the beat every time he picks a bass line or hi-hat to flow to. Like on the original 'Hovi Baby,' he's following the hi-hat the whole first verse. Then the second verse, he's following the organ, I think. Whatever pattern the producer laid down, that's the cadence of his rhyme. He totally has the rhyme memorized before he steps in the booth. He says the whole verse maybe 10 times before he even gets in there."

I can do this all day. pwned.

BusterStacks
11-16-2004, 02:52 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Why am i an idiot

[/ QUOTE ]

not you. ilya. sorry i entered that post before i had see yours.

ilya
11-16-2004, 03:04 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I have something to gain by crushing idiots like you:

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/_/id/5919641

"For The Blueprint, he wrote and recorded nine songs in an inspired two-day stretch. "The songs just started happenin', comin' out of nowhere," he says. "I was in a zone." Jay's recording process itself is a bit miraculous. He picks a track, turns it up loud in the studio, then sits off to the side mumbling to himself. In minutes he's got rhymes and hooks with astounding economy and filled with his trademark double-entendres. Instantly memorized. No pen, no paper. Sometimes, he says, there are four or five songs in his head at one time. Rapper Beanie Sigel has learned to do this from being around Jay, and says it's made him a better MC. "It make your flow so wicked," Sigel says. "Without the pen and paper, your flow be so ridiculous." Adds Jay, "What I have is a gift from God. It can't be explained." This is what he means when he calls himself the God MC and Jay-Hovah."

Keep it coming...

[/ QUOTE ]

This is supposed to be proof? I hope you're not studying to be a lawyer dude.
This whole article is one big fawning, drooling Jay-Z ad. Half of it is about what a brilliant hustler he is. In this context we're supposed to believe that when he goes off into a corner to mutter to himself, he doesn't already have most of his verse figured out? The article even alludes to him saying that he has four or five songs in his head at once. Why would he ever have that many songs in his head if he just comes up with the lyrics on the spot? Or is he actually such an incredible genius that he can write several sets of lyrics in his head at the same time?! Wow.

WEASEL45
11-16-2004, 03:08 PM
You're a joke. You've got proved wrong 30 times and you still wont believe it. idiot

BusterStacks
11-16-2004, 03:09 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have something to gain by crushing idiots like you:

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/_/id/5919641

"For The Blueprint, he wrote and recorded nine songs in an inspired two-day stretch. "The songs just started happenin', comin' out of nowhere," he says. "I was in a zone." Jay's recording process itself is a bit miraculous. He picks a track, turns it up loud in the studio, then sits off to the side mumbling to himself. In minutes he's got rhymes and hooks with astounding economy and filled with his trademark double-entendres. Instantly memorized. No pen, no paper. Sometimes, he says, there are four or five songs in his head at one time. Rapper Beanie Sigel has learned to do this from being around Jay, and says it's made him a better MC. "It make your flow so wicked," Sigel says. "Without the pen and paper, your flow be so ridiculous." Adds Jay, "What I have is a gift from God. It can't be explained." This is what he means when he calls himself the God MC and Jay-Hovah."

Keep it coming...

[/ QUOTE ]

This is supposed to be proof? I hope you're not studying to be a lawyer dude.
This whole article is one big fawning, drooling Jay-Z ad. Half of it is about what a brilliant hustler he is. In this context we're supposed to believe that when he goes off into a corner to mutter to himself, he doesn't already have most of his verse figured out? The article even quotes him as saying that he has four or five songs in his head at once. Why would he ever have that many songs in his head if he just comes up with the lyrics on the spot? Or is he actually such an incredible genius that he can write several sets of lyrics in his head at the same time?! Wow.

[/ QUOTE ]

Um... It's an article about Jay-Z. Are they supposed to say he sucks? And yes, he is a lyrical genious, that's the whole point of this thread. I don't really see where you are going with this, but you not only think I am lying, but you think Rolling Stone is lying too. You have issues, dude. Lay off the Haterade.

ilya
11-16-2004, 03:10 PM
[ QUOTE ]
http://www.celebfashions.com/jay-z.html

"
One of Jay Z's trademarks is his lyrical writing style. Jay Z makes up entire rhymes in his head without ever writing them down on paper. "No pen or paper I got my mind right, when I spit the flow it comes out tight". Jay Z is known to create an entire song in his head by listening to the sample track over and over, eventually flowing outloud when it's time to record. "

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, so? I never disputed this.

ThaSaltCracka
11-16-2004, 03:14 PM
officialy the dumbest thread of the day. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

ilya
11-16-2004, 03:15 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have something to gain by crushing idiots like you:

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/_/id/5919641

"For The Blueprint, he wrote and recorded nine songs in an inspired two-day stretch. "The songs just started happenin', comin' out of nowhere," he says. "I was in a zone." Jay's recording process itself is a bit miraculous. He picks a track, turns it up loud in the studio, then sits off to the side mumbling to himself. In minutes he's got rhymes and hooks with astounding economy and filled with his trademark double-entendres. Instantly memorized. No pen, no paper. Sometimes, he says, there are four or five songs in his head at one time. Rapper Beanie Sigel has learned to do this from being around Jay, and says it's made him a better MC. "It make your flow so wicked," Sigel says. "Without the pen and paper, your flow be so ridiculous." Adds Jay, "What I have is a gift from God. It can't be explained." This is what he means when he calls himself the God MC and Jay-Hovah."

Keep it coming...

[/ QUOTE ]

This is supposed to be proof? I hope you're not studying to be a lawyer dude.
This whole article is one big fawning, drooling Jay-Z ad. Half of it is about what a brilliant hustler he is. In this context we're supposed to believe that when he goes off into a corner to mutter to himself, he doesn't already have most of his verse figured out? The article even quotes him as saying that he has four or five songs in his head at once. Why would he ever have that many songs in his head if he just comes up with the lyrics on the spot? Or is he actually such an incredible genius that he can write several sets of lyrics in his head at the same time?! Wow.

[/ QUOTE ]

Um... It's an article about Jay-Z. Are they supposed to say he sucks? And yes, he is a lyrical genious, that's the whole point of this thread. I don't really see where you are going with this, but you not only think I am lying, but you think Rolling Stone is lying too. You have issues, dude. Lay off the Haterade.

[/ QUOTE ]

Clearly we are getting nowhere. You think I am an idiot, I think you are an idiot. So let's just leave it at that and forget about it.

ThaSaltCracka
11-16-2004, 03:18 PM
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1262925&page=2&view=colla psed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1

BusterStacks
11-16-2004, 03:19 PM
Actually can we take a poll about who is an idiot in this thread? We should let the majority decide.

ilya
11-16-2004, 03:20 PM
[ QUOTE ]
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1262925&page=2&view=colla psed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? Are you implying that I'm jealous of Jay-Z or something silly like that?

ilya
11-16-2004, 03:23 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Actually can we take a poll about who is an idiot in this thread? We should let the majority decide.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you think that it matters what the majority thinks, you may be a bigger idiot than I thought.

ThaSaltCracka
11-16-2004, 03:28 PM
I am implying you are:
1) an idiot
2) a hater
3) stubborn
4) and uninformed.

BusterStacks
11-16-2004, 03:32 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Actually can we take a poll about who is an idiot in this thread? We should let the majority decide.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you think that it matters what the majority thinks, you may be a bigger idiot than I thought.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually what I meant was we should take a sampling of, based on this thread, who looks more like an idiot. Understand now? Whether or not you care is not the issue, but seriously what do you think the results would be?

ilya
11-16-2004, 03:32 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I am implying you are:
1) an idiot
2) a hater
3) stubborn
4) and uninformed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, ok. Love you too.

ThaSaltCracka
11-16-2004, 03:33 PM
you can't deny that you are being absurdly stubborn. Idiot might be to harsh though.

ilya
11-16-2004, 03:34 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Actually can we take a poll about who is an idiot in this thread? We should let the majority decide.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you think that it matters what the majority thinks, you may be a bigger idiot than I thought.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually what I meant was we should take a sampling of, based on this thread, who looks more like an idiot. Understand now? Whether or not you care is not the issue, but seriously what do you think the results would be?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the vote would go overwhelmingly against me. I think the vote would be overwhelmingly wrong.

ilya
11-16-2004, 03:34 PM
[ QUOTE ]
you can't deny that you are being absurdly stubborn. Idiot might be to harsh though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I grant stubborn. And bad-tempered and rude. Clearly I am not very skilled at disagreeing in an agreeable manner. The deteriorating tone of this thread is largely my fault. So I'm sorry for that.

BusterStacks
11-16-2004, 03:42 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you can't deny that you are being absurdly stubborn. Idiot might be to harsh though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I grant stubborn. And bad-tempered and rude. Clearly I am not very skilled at disagreeing in an agreeable manner. The deteriorating tone of this thread is largely my fault. So I'm sorry for that.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're not very skilled at disagreeing in a logical manner either, considering your main arguement was "I don't believe it". Despite numerous accounts of people stating that it was in fact true, as well as the print of several major companies that have no vested interest in the promotion of Jay-Z and have slightly more credibilty and knowledge than you, you maintain your stance based on... skepticism? I don't think idiot was harsh at all.

ilya
11-16-2004, 03:56 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you can't deny that you are being absurdly stubborn. Idiot might be to harsh though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I grant stubborn. And bad-tempered and rude. Clearly I am not very skilled at disagreeing in an agreeable manner. The deteriorating tone of this thread is largely my fault. So I'm sorry for that.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're not very skilled at disagreeing in a logical manner either, considering your main arguement was "I don't believe it". Despite numerous accounts of people stating that it was in fact true, as well as the print of several major companies that have no vested interest in the promotion of Jay-Z and have slightly more credibilty and knowledge than you, you maintain your stance based on... skepticism? I don't think idiot was harsh at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

I did not find the quotes that you and others provided convincing and/or relevant, and I explained why in several cases.
I do not think that Rolling Stone has much integrity or credibility, but that's another discussion I guess.
I think my fundamental position is sound: I think the claim is far-fetched enough that the burden of proof rests on the believers rather than the skeptics.

That said, I am very stubborn and may well be on argument-tilt. This is likely, so I apologize in case it's true.