Advice on paired flops?

[Tilt]

I really need some advice on playing paired boards in 5-max 50NL. I think I am getting raped on these by LAG's and I dont know how to stop it. It feels like alot of bluffing is taking these pots away (and I am not getting my share), but it always seems like when I take a shot at them I run into the real deal.

Lets say you get a flop of T /images/graemlins/spade.gifT /images/graemlins/diamond.gif8 /images/graemlins/club.gif in a multiway (3-5 player) pot. Assume at least one or two LAGs are at the table.

How do you play it when you have J/images/graemlins/heart.gifT /images/graemlins/heart.gif? Do you bet out from EP or go for the c/r? In LP do you ever give a free card if you think you'll get small pot folded to you? Do you smooth call a bet and hope for more action on the turn or do you raise?

How do you play it when you have 8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif9 /images/graemlins/club.gif? Again, bet out from EP or do you worry that someone who reads you will raise, leaving you with no clue if he has a ten or not? Raise a bet from late position? Check around and fold it easily? Is it +EV to defend the 2nd pair against aggressive players?

Lets say you have nothing but overcards in EP, maybe A /images/graemlins/spade.gifJ /images/graemlins/spade.gif. Do you bet out hoping to take it down? Is cold bluffing paired boards +EV in 25-50NL? If its checked to the turn and a rag falls do you bet out? (Sklansky suggests this I believe) Does it vary in LP if its checked to you?

Or if have 9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif9 /images/graemlins/club.gif - do you play it passively or lead out with a good sized bet? How much action do you fight off before folding?

BK, schwza, fim, can you guys share how you approach these flops?

[fireman664]

I dont think there is any stead fast rule. I personally like to bet out from early position when I do hit the trips, mainly because this looks like I didnt hit it (since most ABC playes check-call/raise). The thing with these boards is you dont know if you want action or not alot of the times. I mean, T T 8 flop, and lets say you hold JTs from the button in an unraised pot. You beat alot of hands of course, but 88, 8T, AT, KT, QT are all legit short handed hands that you will see alot. They of course will give you action, and you will have the worse of it. This isnt even counting hands that are good draws like straight/flush draws.

I guess my point is, is that I use alot of feel on these hands, and am always wary of getting called when I do hit the trips. If its a solid player calling, you have to wonder why?? Everyone sees the paired board. I dont chase with these type of boards usually.

I also live by the addage, that its easier to bet as a bluff, than it is to go over the top with a raise as a bluff. If in late position its checked to me, and I do take a stab at a scary flop, if I get checked raised I let it go. Unless of course its by a 2+2er, because we are all capable of this ck raise bluff. lol

Fireman

[kuro]

There's not going to be a real rule of thumb on how to always play those hands. You're going to have to play them differently based on your opponents and based on their position and if there are limpers, etc. Whenever, you're playing against loose agressive players don't fall into becoming loose agressive yourself, because they're better at it than you are. Don't let them get away with limping so often (i.e. open with a standard raise more often when you're going to play). Remember that when you're in multiway pots that it's hard to bluff everyone out, so semi-bluff sometimes but stone cold bluff pretty much forget about it. You also want to remember that TPTK is not very strong in multiway pots, especially if the board consists of connected cards, so tread lightly if you bet TPTK and someone comes over the top. Remember that in multiway pots hands like Axs , small pp (playing them for set value), and connectors (provided that you are looking to play them for the nut straight) become much more profitable and if everyone usually limps you can get away with playing them even from early position provided the blinds are relatively small compared to your stack size.

You want to try to get a feeling of how each of the players is betting and see if they're predictable. I.E. How often do you see them slow play? How often do you think they bluffed at the pot? How often do you see them bet and then fold to a reraise?

As far as your hands you mentioned go:

1) Most of the time you have the best hand here. The board is rainbow so you don't have to worry too much about flush draws. You want to mix up how you play it so that you're not predictable. Sometimes you'll bet it. Other times you'll check raise it. Other times you'll check it and bet out on the turn.

2) With 89o, you shouldn't play this from early position. You probably muck this unless you can get in for cheap and you know there are lots of people going to be in the pot. You are looking to flop a strong hand (i.e full house, nut straight, two pair) or an open ended straight draw. Be leary of straight draws when you're not the nut straight or there is a possible flush out there. You didn't do that in this case, so in a multiway pot you should usually check/fold to any significant raise. If you're last to act and everyone checks to you on the flop, you can sometimes bet out and win this pot but you got to be willing to let it go if anyone plays back at you.

3. AJs you should bring this in for a standard raise and hope to limit the field. Hopefully, you'll only get 1 or 2 callers. Then you probably want to make a good sized raise with that flop and see what happens. Remember the more people in the pot the more likely that someone has a piece of it and the more likely your bluff will get called. Also you have to try to figure out which people are unbluffable and will call you down with anything and avoid stone cold bluffing at them.

4) 99. Don't play that for set value. Bring it in for a standard raise preflop. If you get 1 or 2 callers then make a decent sized bet with it on the flop and play from there based on what you know about your opponents. If there are alot of people involded in the pot, your hands weaker and it's less likely to pick up the pot with a bet. So when/if you bet out, you should be more willing to give it up if you get reraised.

Those are my thoughts. I'd love to hear other peoples, because short-handed play with LAGs is tough. I try to avoid short-handed play with LAGs. If you're having trouble with them, you might want to look for tables that have less of them.

[Percival GooseEye]

My opinion if i hit this board with JT - I do not check raise. I think a check raise announces to the table that you have a T.

One of two things are likely to happen:
1. You let the bettor of the hook easily if he was taking a stab at it. He has an easy fold.
2. He comes over the top with AT, KT, T8 and you're stuck.

I like the line of betting out better. I think you are more likely to be called all the way down by worse hands that don't put you on a T.

I would also lead out with 98 or 99 in your other examples and fold to a raise or slow down if called.

AJs would really depend on the table and my image.

GooseEye