Weirdplayed 2 Pair

[sthief09]

no read

how do you maximize profit in situations like this?


Party 5/10 (10 handed)

MP limps, folded to hero who checks in the BB with K /images/graemlins/spade.gif3 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Flop (2 players, 2 SB): K/images/graemlins/club.gifJ/images/graemlins/diamond.gif3/images/graemlins/heart.gif

hero checks, MP checks

Turn (2 players, 1 BB): 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif

hero checks, MP bets, hero calls

River (2 players, 3 BB): Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif

hero bets, MP calls

[SCfuji]

preflop: raise since you know you will flop two pair......

flop: bet. if you check, then plan on check-raising the turn and leading the river.
turn: bet, since you bet the flop.
river: bet.

[Rubeskies]

I like the check/raise attempt on the flop. I've noticed that especially at 5/10 that if checked to HU, opponents will bet a vast majority of the time, especially if you are the BB. Just bad luck there.

After that I'm probably betting because it kind of looks like you're trying to steal the pot and you're annoyed if it gets checked through again. He might try to raise on a resteal.

[Nate tha' Great]

I'd just go ahead and check-raise the flop. There's a good chance that he's caught a piece of it with a pair, straight draw etc.

Seriously, two pair is a fine hand heads up, but for the most part in hold 'em you need your opponent to make a second-best hand to really profit. If he has like 76s or something and you call on this board, there's really no guarantee that he's going to put money in on the turn or river anyway.

[SCfuji]

[ QUOTE ]
I like the check/raise attempt on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I obviously missed this. Thief is this was the reason why you checked the flop all is good, but then the c/r should have been planned on the turn?

[Danenania]

Depends a lot on the player but I often play the same except I would go ahead and checkraise the turn. Many will call down just to see what you have.

[spamuell]

On the flop, if he did bet, were you planning to check-raise right there? That might be obvious, I would do it because I'd also check-raise there with J2 or whatever but I don't know if you'd do either of those things.

[Nate tha' Great]

lol I didn't notice that you did in fact check the flop. I think that your play once he checked behind on the flop was fine.

[Danenania]

I think against many players it's much better to try another checkraise on the turn especially on such a safe board. Most will bet more hands than they'll call with.

[Rubeskies]

[ QUOTE ]
I think against many players it's much better to try another checkraise on the turn especially on such a safe board. Most will bet more hands than they'll call with.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well I'm just going to use the action here and say that it's more likely that the opponent is passive than agressive. Now this is a pretty crappy read but the check on the flop is interesting. Like I said, a vast majority of players will bet here with any two cards. The check seems pretty passive to me or possibly an agressive player slowplaying a good hand.

Wouldn't a passive player be more inclined to call than bet?

[Danenania]

After getting checked to twice heads-up this guy has entered "challenge of manhood" territory which supercedes any passive/aggressive categorizations.

[Rubeskies]

[ QUOTE ]
After getting checked to twice heads-up this guy has entered "challenge of manhood" territory which supercedes any passive/aggressive categorizations.

[/ QUOTE ]

Haha, sadly I have no logic to counteract this. Well said.

[sthief09]

yeah I would've check-raised the flop. he'll usually call me down or maybe give me more action since my check-raise doesn't really indicate a strong hand.

[spamuell]

[ QUOTE ]
After getting checked to twice heads-up this guy has entered "challenge of manhood" territory which supercedes any passive/aggressive categorizations.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe.

I know that if I didn't bet the flop heads-up, I'm almost never betting the turn unless I improve, when the pot is the same size and my bet is twice as big. Maybe I'll stop doing that by the time I get to 5/10, though.

[ErrantNight]

edited to remove stupidity...

i think the way you attempted to play it was fine. you were up against crap. his turn bet reaks of a crap hand making a steal attempt. [was a note here about leading the river, you did... i'll learn to read next time] but you're really only gonna make money if your opponent catches something and they bluff at you. unless they're a noted calling station and/or believe you might be playing too many hands... in which case leading the streets would be stronger.

when your opponents hand is that bad, one bb is about all you're going to get out of them, if that.

[sthief09]

I would've raised the flop if he bet. if anything, I'm underrepresenting my hand by doing this. it's really the turn/river action that I'm interested here. when he bet the turn after checking the flop, I felt there was a good chance he was taking a stab at it. he didn't bet the flop, so he either has a huge hand or he has nothing. on the turn, he probably still has nothing, or maybe he got up the courage to bet a J. I want him to call with that hand, and I don't think he will if I check-raise.

[sthief09]

the reason I didn't check the flop is because the vast majority of the hands he could have are drawing to runner runner. I want him to pay me off rather than just folding the flop, like he will most of the time. also, by checking, I get to see how much a part of this pot he wants. if he bets, then he's willing to play, and I will raise. if he checks, he has crap. that's why I checked the turn again. maybe my second check has made him more interested in the pot. if I can get him to take a stab, that's 1 more BB than I would've gotten by betting. on the river I bet since he's representing trash, but might pay me off

[Danenania]

I think a J will call down a turn c/r more than you think because people don't like to fold pairs when they see their opponent do something screwy like check twice then checkraise. It looks maniacal.

[sthief09]

true, though I'd have expected him to bet a J on the flop. on the turn I'm putting him on nothing. a J is definitely possible though and I agree he'll pay off a c/r