JJ hand - Importance of position and the short stack push

[ipp147]

$50 NL at Party.

I'm dealt J /images/graemlins/spade.gif J /images/graemlins/club.gif in the SB with $60 in front of me.

3 limpers and the CO ($230) raises to $5. I flat call as does UTG ($21)

Pot - $18

Flop comes T /images/graemlins/club.gif T /images/graemlins/spade.gif 3 /images/graemlins/club.gif

I check, UTG pushes, CO flat calls.

Decision on me. Pots now $50 and I have $55 in front of me. CO clearly has me covered.

Whats your move?

[amoeba]

easy fold.

[Tilt]

Clear fold.

[fimbulwinter]

fold-a-zor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.discovercreation.org/kidpage/cartoon-dino-web.gif

[ipp147]

I folded.

Basically I either way behind or not too far ahead as well as being out of position. If I was behind I was getting no more action and a side pot versus a possible T. If I was behind then I was in a whole world of trouble.

Small stack turned over 55.
Big stack turned over AKo.

to top it all the turn was a J /images/graemlins/frown.gif

Just wanted to make sure it was as clear a fold as I first thought.

[kuro]

The UTG player's all-in should really look like a bluff to you. What kind of hand could he have that you would possibly limp with and go all-in with this flop? Most people do not limp with AA. Even in he was limping with AA, you would expect him to reraise preflop rather than smooth call. With hands like JJ to KK most people open with a standard raise to try to drive out the Ax hands,Kx hands. When he goes all in on the flop you know he doesn't have 33 or TT, because those hands are so strong that he'd probably slow play it and let one of you bet into him. It's unlikely that he was playing AT or KT because those hands are to easily dominated. This looks like a bluff or a semi-bluff. I'd imagine the worst thing you could be up against from him is Ac3c or a mid pocket pair 66-99. This flop looks like a flop that wouldn't hit anyone, he had position so he bet at it hoping that his two pair was the best out there.

So the person you're worried about is the co. The co is in position to steal the blinds and has a big stack. So the range of hands that he could raise with are pretty big. It is hard to make much of his flat call. I'd be worried that he was stealing with AT or KT. However, there are two Ts on the board so it's less likely that his hand contains a T. If he had AA,KK,QQ,JJ I think he'd have pushed to try to drive you out if you were on a flush draw. So I think the range of hands you put him on are overcards, flush draw, AT, KT

There's so much money in the pot that you cannot fold here when you have an overpair. You more than likely have the best hand and you don't want to give the co a free card if he has overcards so you push all-in and hope he doesn't have you beat. If you always fold because you think you are up against a set or Aces when someone bets then there's not much use playing JJ QQ from out of position. Yes, sometimes you will crash and burn, but most of the time you'll win.