Low Content Vegas Hand

[Chris Daddy Cool]

Hi dudes, I've been gone for the past couple of days in Las Vegas during the long weekend and played a couple of rather non strategic hands. Here's one. I'd post this in the Mid/High stakes forum, but it probably wouldn't be recieved well by those that dont' know me, so here it goes...

Bellagio 30/60 game (9 handed)

What was once a great game turned absolutely terrible, heads up or 3 way pots and blind hands galore. I raise UTG with 7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif expecting to steal the blinds maybe 40% of the time here. I get coldcalled by the button. The button is the table coach of this game who's also a big jerk who literally ran off the fish by making stupid little remarks like "nice f*cking 2 outer" "every single time! an A comes off!" classic Helmuthian whining and aquarium tapping. but anyhoo, he is a decent player who probably beats this level for a little bit, but calls down/makes plays too much with underpairs. When he calls I put him on paint cards or a small-mid pocket, but could even have something devestating like AA or KK. The blinds fold and it's heads up.

I bet the flop dark. This suprises the button, but waits for the flop to be dealt before acting.

Flop: 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif9 /images/graemlins/club.gifK /images/graemlins/spade.gif

He looks at me with a smug expression and calls. I have a plan formulating in my head to bet the turn dark again and check the river no matter what happens.

I bet the turn dark. This freezes up the button a bit again, but again he waits for the turn before deciding what to do. I think he's full of it and is going to call anyways no matter what.

Turn: 4 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

He calls.

River: 5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif /images/graemlins/cool.gif

I glance at the board a little then look up at his smug little face and check. He smiles a bit and says "Queens huh?" and bets what I'm sure is a King. I instantly knock down one of my neat little stacks and spray the chips forward sloppily on the table and announce "Raise." He sits up and stares at me and shakes his head and calls.

I flip over my cards and he gives me a WTF?! look as he mucks his hand as I rake in the pot smiling as the whole table laughs at him. I rock. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[asofel]

you river g00t.

[ QUOTE ]
played a couple of rather non strategic hand I played.

[/ QUOTE ]

typing, not so g00t. is the first played = "am posting"? actually curious, not just being an ass...reason being, i'd like to see more of the 30/60 if you've got more to come...

[bunky9590]

ni han.......sir.

Gotta love the table coaches. rivering them is even better.

[sublime]

chris-

i dont like your preflop play, save this for hands like KJ/AT/A9 etc

also that betting in the dark crap is for the birds. your a very good player save that theatrical crap for the wannabe's

i really like your river c/r

[MoreWineII]

I was thinking the same thing. Same goes for bunky at times. I enjoy your posts, but can't help but wonder if some of the fancy stuff is really +EV. Is there a method behind the madness?

[Chris Daddy Cool]

Hi sublime,

[ QUOTE ]
i dont like your preflop play, save this for hands like KJ/AT/A9 etc

[/ QUOTE ]

I know, but HEPFAP even suggests raising hands like 76s UTG in tough tables on occassions. Also if you read my description I also stated that I thought that there was a 40% chance that I'd steal the blinds. Don't I have enough of an overlay with 76s here given my description of the situation?

[ QUOTE ]
also that betting in the dark crap is for the birds. your a very good player save that theatrical crap for the wannabe's


[/ QUOTE ]

I also thought that betting the flop dark could take down the pot on the flop, but that didn't really pan out. but once i saw that i was open ended, i think the rest of the hand plays itself out. betting the turn dark is relatively easy because it might actually convince him that i have something and take it down there, but if he calls at least it sets him up for a beatiful checkraise on the river if when what looks like a harmless blank falls off.

Something could be said about the turn though that if I checked he might check behind and I'd get a free card, but couple things to consider
a) I could take it down right there if I bet.
b) if i check to him, there's a good chance that he'll bet anyways and when i call him, I'm not sure what my river play will be because he might decide that a free showdown is better than value betting the river once I call in case he doesn't really have a K, but something smaller like JJ,TT, or A9 or whatever.

[sublime]

I know, but HEPFAP even suggests raising hands like 76s UTG in tough tables on occassions. Also if you read my description I also stated that I thought that there was a 40% chance that I'd steal the blinds. Don't I have enough of an overlay with 76s here given my description of the situation?

you were there, so i guess you would know better than i. i would just prefer to have some high card power if i am going to be in a likely heads up situation.

in reference to the betting in the dark, its just tacky IMO.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

[ QUOTE ]
in reference to the betting in the dark, its just tacky IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm just a tacky dude I guess. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif You're telling me you've never bet in the dark before?

[sublime]

nope, never. when its done to me i take it as a sign of disrespect and arrogance and i dont want other players to view me in that light.

your not tacky, probably just to good for your own good /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[ElSapo]

[ QUOTE ]
in reference to the betting in the dark, its just tacky IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno. From a strictly strategic standpoint, I think it depends on what you want to accomplish. From a fun standpoint, I think fun is +EV.

Honestly, though I liked Bunky's dark-moves better, I can't see anything too wrong with it. And if CDC keeps them guessing, all the better.

Perhaps my issue is just with the word "tacky." I don't see anything wrong with dark betting, dark checking, drak ebts in general or any other dark moves. They may not be +EV (though they could be), but I don't see anything "tacky" about it. I guess I just don't understand the response.

ElSapo

[ElSapo]

[ QUOTE ]
when its done to me i take it as a sign of disrespect and arrogance and i dont want other players to view me in that light.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno man, it's still just a game. A fun game, a profitable game, but just a game. Of all the offensive things I've seen or heard at a poker table, or read online, dark betting ranks pretty unoffensive. But that's just me.

ElSapo

[sublime]

its just how i respond/feel when its done to me, doesnt mean that everybody feels that way but i have a big ego so i like assuming that everybody thinks like me /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[sublime]

I dunno man, it's still just a game. A fun game, a profitable game, but just a game. Of all the offensive things I've seen or heard at a poker table, or read online, dark betting ranks pretty unoffensive. But that's just me.

frogs have thick skin

[spamuell]

i dont like your preflop play, save this for hands like KJ/AT/A9 etc

Do you think so?

Firstly, looking at pre-flop in a vacuum if CDC loses 1SB 60% of the time and makes 1.5SB 40% of the time then his expectation on the pre-flop raise is break-even. If we assume CDC can play profitably after the flop (and it's not that clear-cut because he's out of position with a bad hand) then the play is profitable. Anyway, the pre-flop play on its own is not -EV.

About raising pre-flop with KJ/AT/A9 as opposed to 76s, I'm not sure you're right. I'm not saying you're definitely wrong, I don't know, but it seems to me that given the hands you're likely to be called/3-bet by, your reverse implied odds are shitty with those hands and much better with 76s. I could be wrong though, the fact that your hand is much better in terms of high cards might make up for this.

[bunky9590]

[ QUOTE ]
You're telling me you've never bet in the dark before?

[/ QUOTE ]

(fingers crossed) Nope, never.

If my buddy sublime stopped being such a nit and dark bet and straddled once in a while, he might actually enjoy poker a little more.

Yes, dark betting is arrogant. Part of the reason I like doing it. I do it when I WANT a call. Not on a bluff.