Quick Dell monitor question

[NotMitch]

I'm looking at 2 options, mostly to be used for poker.

The old 2001FP or the newer 2005FPW, any opinions on which is better for this?

[eric5148]

You really don't need the 2005. You can 4-table with no overlap on the 2001, and they're going for $640-$650 on ebay.

[NotMitch]

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You really don't need the 2005. You can 4-table with no overlap on the 2001, and they're going for $640-$650 on ebay.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well I'm likely getting a whole new system from dell so the cost is the same.

[eric5148]

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Well I'm likely getting a whole new system from dell so the cost is the same.

[/ QUOTE ]

How is the price the same? But, if somehow you can get the 2005 for the same, then why not?

I highly do not recommend buying a dell system. But if you don't mind an overpriced computer and incompetent customer service, go ahead.

[astroglide]

the 2005 is a worse choice if you value 4-tabling. 1600x1200 resolution (the 2001) fits them perfectly.

[ericd]

I've bought several Dells and have the opposite opinion of them. I've found their customer service no better or worse than the others and as far as price/value goes I don't know anyone who can beat them. I'm concerned that I'm missing something. I'd appreciate if you'd let me know what experience you base your claims upon.

[eric5148]

You can get a better computer custom built, or build one yourself for about 75% of the price. I just got a new P4, 200GB, 1GB RAM, 16x DVD+RW, on ebay for $1300 shipped. The same computer at Dell would cost hundreds more.

I forget what they call it, but they charge extra for faster customer service. You pay them to give you priority over other people when you call CS. Very shady, IMO. If you advertise CS over the phone, any respectable business should answer questions from customers ASAP, regardless of what they paid.

[ericd]

I suppose some of our feelings towards Dell are based on their customer service. For me, they have always been upfront that I'd be at the bottom of the Customer Service queue unless I paid more. I've chosen to save the money and thus far it has worked out okay.

[astroglide]

www.techbargains.com (http://www.techbargains.com). they have insane deals on desktops all the time. what kind of support service are you getting on your purchase via ebay?

[BusterStacks]

I would prefer the 2001 to the 2005 even if they were the same price.

[eric5148]

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what kind of support service are you getting on your purchase via ebay?

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5 year. Not that I really care, because I get all my computer questions answered here just fine.

[astroglide]

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because I get all my computer questions answered here just fine

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so what's the complaint about service again?

[Blarg]

People may like Dells, but positing them as necessarily the best value out there is just wrong.

I got a Compaq Athlon 3200 with a 160 gig HD, 512 RAM, a DVD-RW, all kinds of media card slots, a CD-RW drive for substantially less than I would have paid Dell for an equivalent system, unless it was on a super duper sale undoubtedly bundled with some junk I didn't want, and maybe even then. And it came with more and better software too.

Dell sometimes has some great sales, but they're not the only ones, and a lot of times to get those sales you have to buy them as part of a bloated package that may not have the things you want and may have things you have no use for at all, like some of their cheaper LCD's that are no good for 4-tabling. Sickeningly enough, many of their package deals do NOT let you get their 20-inch LCD's as part of the package. And you can't phone up to fix up the deal more to your liking, because the best deals are internet-only, so if the options suck, too bad.

I agree that charging you more for better customer service seems very dubious to me. There seems to be almost an implied threat of bad customer service there if you don't pony up the extra dough.

[astroglide]

right now you can buy a dell with a p4 3.0/800, 512mb ddr400, 40gb, color inkjet, cdrw, ethernet/modem (6 months dialup), 2 year warranty for $370 and that's a run-of-the-mill deal. the huge majority of their deals do not require bundling with a monitor or comprise what could be described as a "bloated package". if somebody wants one separately they can make a separate order. add-ons purchased with the system are as overpriced as anything you see at best buy in the checkout aisle, it's more or less the same thing. also you can phone up to change items that are unchangeable during online checkout, they have a dedicated internet sales phone group.

overall, nobody comes consistently close in pricing. they have deals which could be described as "great" several times per month.

[ericd]

I have to disagree. I firmly believe for price/value Dell is clearly the best.

I am constantly looking around for better values. Each time I think I've found one I compare it to Dell. And Dell always has a better deal.

Unless you have a specialized need that requires a component that Dell does not sell, you are overpaying. Even then it might still be cheaper to buy the Dell with the cheapest option for that one component and then buy that component from someplace else and install it yourself.

[Blarg]

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the huge majority of their deals do not require bundling with a monitor or comprise what could be described as a "bloated package".

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This is untrue in a number of ways.

First of all, after looking through the deals Dells have for months, it is quite plain that there is not a "huge majority" or anything like it of Dell deals that are not bundled deals. And the virtue of being able to add more to a bloated package isn't the problem with bloated packages; it's that they're so bloated in the first place.

Exploring further, it is clear that these bundles are often the standard "include a bunch of junk" bundles common to all manufacturers -- not singling out Dell here. Typically, manufacturers underbuild these bargain systems and then overcharge you for the upgrades that make for a better machine -- say like Dell does sometimes offering a machine with 256 megs of RAM with a preposterously expensive upgrade to 512 or 1 gig of RAM.

And I say "junk" because you are rarely free to include exactly what you want, or to exclude what you don't. For instance, many deals force you to choose a LCD, but restrict you to one that's no more than 17 or 19 inches, or don't let you include the nice Dell 2001 20-incher. This is absolutely dirt common, not exceptional in the slightest. Or else, if they do include it, they charge you the $900 price, an $850 price, or seemingly almost any random amount to include the monitor in the deal. Those amounts are all over the map as they try to see what they can get away with charging you, or try to make the deal just unattractive enough that you are forced to leap up into the more expensive, high-margin product tiers if you want to get just the higher quality components without a lot of frills. Video cards are another easy to confirm component where they regularly do the same thing -- making it difficult or impossible for you to buy a well-configured system without going to another system entirely, or charging you too much to upgrade.

Second, is that many of these deals are internet-only. You cannot make them over the phone. I know. I've tried. An internet-only coupon cannot be applied if you try to make changes to their stock selections.

The comparison of jostling around with a series of locked-in choices versus doing whatever you want or finding a better deal somewhere else is not one that puts Dell on an even footing or in a good light. It's certainly nothing near as good as going to a store and picking and choosing.

Your point about Dell being consistently good in pricing couldn't be less meaningful, though it may be true. But its practical impact is absolutely none.

The average person doesn't buy a PC a day, every few days, every week, or even every year. They can afford to pick and choose the best deal at the time, if they're willing to do the legwork(or the internet-search work). It couldn't matter less to them that Dell had a good deal last week and will in a few weeks again; consistency means nothing; they need both the best price and the best choices, right now, not at any other time.

Sometimes Dell provides that, but to be perfectly fair, sometimes it doesn't.

Dell is not particularly cheap. The equivalent of Dell deals are in almost every Sunday newspaper and scattered all over the internet.

Dell sometimes does have great deals if for some odd reason you want EXACTLY what they're offering, usually in a bundle -- like a printer when you already have a printer; a monitor when you already have a monitor, and not the kind you want as an upgrade or as an additional monitor, a "LCD-TV" or some other useless junk.

Sometimes, but rarely, they may have excellent values like the two 20-inch LCD's plus a 8400 for $1579 shipped. But that's very much not the norm.

Trying to get simply a decently priced computer for its performance category without a lot of frills and with a fair price for upgrades is much trickier.



[ QUOTE ]
p4 3.0/800, 512mb ddr400, 40gb, color inkjet, cdrw, ethernet/modem (6 months dialup), 2 year warranty for $370 and that's a run-of-the-mill deal

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If you're talking about their 3000 model, then yes, it is a decent deal on that computer, but it's hardly run of the mill, and that is hardly much of a computer. It has built-in video using shared RAM. Importantly, it has only two memory slots, so anybody wanting more than 512 megs of RAM, which isn't uncommon at all, has to buy it either up front at an inflated price from Dell or when upgrading throw away their RAM entirely and start from zero ram. The six months of AOL may or may not be desired or desireable; I would pay extra NOT to have AOL put on my computer. Same goes for the printer -- may not be needed or wanted. 40 gigs of HD is substandard, but fully in conformity with the stripped-down nature of this box. Ethernet and softmodem are standard in every computer. CDRW is nice enough but hardly remarkable; still, good enough.

They have upgraded drastically so that now the lack of an AGP port that was standard with this system can still be overcome without substandard video cards by resort to a new ability to plug in a PCI-Express card, although Dell offers only a "SE" edition of only one kind of video card as an upgrade -- again, the "buy something else if you really want to upgrade this machine" kind of deal.

All in all, a very average computer that's much better than the misery it used to be, at a decent price, but you could probably get it cheaper if you dropped the printer, and this kind of deal is not the norm. I wouldn't buy it even at this price; I'd buy a 4600 or 4700 and be well-served to pay extra. The lack of drive bays, memory slots, and video card options, as well as the smallness of the case being not at all unlikely to lead to air circulation/heat problems when adding in an a new, hot video card later and/or a bigger hard disk, make it an average system at a decent price, but I'd never consider buying it without a hefty sale price on it. By the way, the typical warranty on this system, the 3000, is only 90-days, and is advertised as such all over their site. Shows you how much faith they have in their product.

That's often a problem with Dell; you wouldn't consider buying it if it wasn't on sale.

Wide world out there. Dell's only the only good answer if you don't want to spend any time or effort at all looking around. Thanksgiving and Christmas are coming up. I expect bargains like the one listed above to be everywhere. Oh yeah, right after Christmas is New Years. So in the space of a month and a half we're going to have a gigantic slew of great bargains everywhere. No reason to chain yourself to only one option at this point.


Dell is simply not the only thing out there, by a huge measure, unless you're too lazy to look. Which I can understand, and which would bring at least some authority to your mention that they seem to have some "consistency" in having good prices. Someone unwilling to do research or too impatient to wait for deals either at places like Best Buy or Fry's or so many, many other places could just zero in on Dell every now and then and probably hit on something presentable with reasonable frequency.

Just don't count on it at any particular time. And good luck getting a decent deal without a lot of bundled crap you're paying extra for. $200 off a package deal with $200 worth of stuff in it that you don't want is just more clutter and perhaps shipping charges.

[Blarg]

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I am constantly looking around for better values. Each time I think I've found one I compare it to Dell. And Dell always has a better deal.

Unless you have a specialized need that requires a component that Dell does not sell, you are overpaying.

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This is a huge, dramatic but very clumsy blanket statement that is simply not true.

[ericd]

It's clear to me that I know something you don't or you know something I don't. I'm not sure which it is.

Here is what I know. Every Wednesday I check out the new Dell prices. I check both home and small business. I look at "all desktop offers". I select a few and configure them. I then check HP, IBM and Gateway. I also do a general search of the internet using sites such as CNET and Pricegrabber (others as well). Over the past 18 months, Dell has always had the best deal.

You may be able to find the odd computer here and there at auction sites or closeouts for discontinued models. However, in most instances those are bundled with so many extras that the price break you might have gotten is often overtaken by all the extras.

So, if there is something I'm missing I'd be interested in knowing. I spend a lot of money purchasing desktops and if you could point out to me how I could reduce that expense I'd really appreciate it.

[Blarg]

I check more often than you do, and perhaps a little more widely. When I get into wanting a new computer, I check all over the place quite a few times a week. Not all the new Dell deals come on Wednesday, either, if I recall correctly. Some last only a day, or until a certain number of units are sold, and come at odd times of the week. You definitely should check more than every Wednesday.

Although, saying that Dell has "always had the best deal" makes me really wonder if you are, honestly, addicted to hyperbole. I don't mean entirely to be a smart-ass saying that, but I find it very hard -- let's say impossible -- to believe that you NEVER found a better deal anywhere else than Dell -- ever.

Some of the places I've checked are fatwallet.com, edealinfo.com, pricegrabber, Newegg, Amazon, Staples, Office Max, Office Depot, etc., online. I have also visited IBM and HP online sites and, rarely, Gateway. I've visited more than that, but there are some anyway.

Frys Electronics' has an online site, Outpost.com. Their retail store has sales every single day except Tuesday and Thursday, usually a number running concurrently, and they are almost always echoed in their online store. They advertise up a storm, at least here in Southern California.

But I also just check the papers. Office Max, Office Depot, Circuit City, Best Buy, Staples, Frys again, CompUSA...there are so many advertisers, and many advertise during the regular weekdays. Then if you get the Sunday paper here in L.A., there is a blizzard of ads for computers.

I frequently see prices sometimes worse than Dell's, often comparable, and often better.

But you know where I really find the cheapest computers of all, even cheaper than you can build them yourself sometimes -- is at computer fairs. We have a number of them weekly and monthly here in So. Cal, including some that are gargantuan. The competition between vendors is ferocious, and you can play it against them easily. If you don't get a fantastic price(and the prices generally start out fantastic anyway), the person you're demanding it from knows you can literally turn around and walk three feet in any direction and be at a new vendor who knows he HAS to give you a better deal or he'll lose your business just like the first guy did. Especially if you come at the end of the day when people don't want to pack up extra stuff and take it home, and want to get in the last dollar, you can get some outrageous deals. Flash a wad of cash and the vendors at these hyper-competitive computer fairs see the holy light.

Another nice thing is, you can generally get standard boxes and motherboards, unlike what you get with many big name manufacturers, so expansion is much easier. Even if a vendor doesn't have a particular component you need, if he wants the sale, he will just trade with or buy from another vendor who does, and boom, you've got everything you ever wanted in your computer, no "also-rans" or crappy compromises.

And you see exactly what you're buying -- and see it WORK right in front of your face, before you buy it. No worries about dud systems or dead pixels on your LCD's. It's really a killer way to save money on computers.

Anyway there are an awful lot of ways to go. I'm not saying Dell is the worst or the best, but there are so many options, and Dell is just one of them.

[ericd]

I think I understand our difference.

As you've correctly pointed out, Dell can be beaten one computer at a time. However, for me, that is rarely the way I purchase computers. And I must admit, now that I trust Dell's durability along with their pricing, another vendor would have to quite a bit better for me to change.

Eric

[astroglide]

most of them are not bundled with monitors. some used to come with color printers or palm zires a lot, but the zires commanded a decent amount on ebay so people opted for that a lot.

upgrades are cheaper aftermarket, so you buy them aftermarket. problem solved.

internet orders must be placed online but can be modified via phone.

an overwhelming amount of the people i know (many of whom are in the tech industry in one form or another) wait for dell deals to roll around when replacing home desktops. they pick and choose what upgrades they want on pricewatch. the average ones just get what's listed when something hits techbargains and maybe add some memory from crucial. none of them scour the ends of the earth for something to browse the web and read email.

shared video memory does not matter to most users.

[astroglide]

fry's in-store deals are much better and more frequent than their outpost counterparts. they usually get listed on forum-based deal sites like fatwallet because of the limited availability (west coast).

dell is one of many options but it happens to be extremely easy and competitive. people pick them because the deals are good and it's absolutely no hassle/research to acquire.

[NotMitch]

Good thread in the zoo http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1292242&page=&view=&sb=5& o=&fpart=all&vc=1 I was able to find a code to get the monitor for $564, so if any of you are interested now might be the time. Thanks for all the help on this.