Bottom of the heap - please help..!

[Ojo_Rojo]

I would be interested to know if I did the right thing here.. I have a feeling my approach was a bit ham-fisted.

Paradise Poker, 100NL ($1 Big Blind) No real reads.

Stacks:
Me: $63
MP: $36.50
EP: $81.25

I am dealt 88 in middle position.
3 limpers, I limp, MP min-raises, all the limpers call, for a $11.50 pot.

Flop: 89T (rainbow)

Checked to me, I bet the pot ($10) MP quickly raises to $20, EP calls and I push.
The turn and river are rags.

MP turns over 99, EP turns over QJ for the flopped straight, and takes the money.

Is this too much action on the flop for a bottom set on a scary board, or is it just one of those things?

Thanks in advance for any help, this is a great place by the way.

Ojo_Rojo

[beta1607]

Raise preflop will get QJ out most of the time, and if MP comes back over the top or pushes you can fold thinking you are only a slight favorite against a hand like AK or a huge dog to an over pair. As for the post flop play, I would like to think I would have folded when it was raised on a board like that fearing a straight, but sometimes its hard to get away from a set. As for losing Set over set it happens unfortunatly, but the really important part of this hand is raising and shutting out QJ type hands preflop.

[Pokermonger]

Hopefully some of the better players than me here(and there are many) will correct me if I am wrong, but I don't raise preflop because I want the QJ in the hand. Because when I hit my set, if he hits top pair or even better two pair I have a great chance to break him. On the hand in question, the board would have scared me because of the straight possibility. I would have cold called the flop raise (which may have been the wrong play) and hoped the board paired. Of course I would have lost to a higher boat, but at these levels I haven't found a way to get away from losing it all to a higher set unless I have a great read on a player.

[AdamBragar]

These flops are always trouble because of the huge array of hands that could come into play here. 99, 1010, JQ, JK, (maybe JA), 89s, 910s, are all feasible hands and will all think they are pretty good. Out of these hands, you are massive underdogs to 99 and 1010 (something like 90 percent dog. If the person has JQ, you still have a 1 in 3 chance of pulling out the hand, but that's not where you want to be. You're a decent favorite against everything else.

With that said, it's pretty risky going all in with so many hands dominating you. I wouldn't bet the flop. If it's checked all around, then someone is either slow playing QJ or you are ahead. Sure, if a J or a 7 comes on the turn, then you've screwed yourself. But at least you're protecting against the major downside

With that said, to the raise and call, I would fold. If there was just the raise by MP, I could understand pushing or calling because there are chances of AA, KK, KJ, AJ here. But when EP just calls the min raise, you've got to put that person on massively slowplaying a monster. Why else would they check and then just call? Also, when you're pushing you're basically saying, both these people don't have any hands that are dominating me. I could be confident about one player having 2 pair or chasing, but 2 is less likely.

Well, that's what I would do.

[schwza]

i would have played it exactly as you did. you don't want to raise with 88 after 3 people have limped in - you want to try to flop a set and hope somebody can't get away from TP.

i think you have to bet out on this flop - any 6, 7, J, or Q kills your action or loses you the pot. and then when it's raised behind you, you've got to cross your fingers and push. calling is ugly - you wind up with 30% of you stack in the middle out of position. and then what do you do if a straight card hits? and you've got too much hand to fold. the only hands that have you in real bad shape are 99 and TT, but seriously believing those are out just based on a min-raise and a cold-call is seeing monsters under the bed. so push.

welcome to the forum.

[beta1607]

Short handed raise with 88 because it gains strength with fewer people in the pot. In terms of keeping QJ in the hand your not going to take his stack when he has top pair weak kicker unless he is a total fish. Raising gives you the chance of winning the pot right there which is good or gives you the initative for the rest of the hand so you can bet out when it is checked to you and probably take the pot down at that point. If the game had a few more people in it then limping or in this case calling the min-raise would be fine depending on position and you can go for the home run when you make the set but this is not the right game for a play like that with so few players in the pot and nobody showing strength.