What would you need to call here?

[Cleveland Guy]

Here is the situation as it happened to me.

Pokeroom $10 +1 - 3 left (3 pay) BB is 300.

Button is short stack with 1800
SB is big stack wiht 8200
BB (Hero) has ~ 5000

Button Goes all in.
SB Raises all in.

Now the button has been short stacked for a while, pushing and picking up blinds, but folding his BB to agression from one of us (or the 4th guy who just bused out).

The SB has been playing agressive and taking many chances, and winning a fair amount.

The range of hands for both players is any pocket Pair, and 2 broadway, any Axs. probably some Kxs.

I don't think the Big stack would have to have a "great" hand to call here, just one he thinks is close to a coin flip.

What would the range of hands I could call here be?

[Klak]

not many. why would you ever want to call here really? you may as well take second if the SB is going to bust the other guy. if the button guy has a good hand, why would you want to triple him? i realize that you think SB may have a marginal hand, but why play this pot for only a portion of it? wait for a better situation to try to double off the SB. so to answer your question, id only call with high pairs (tens or up) or AK.

[Unarmed]

I'm calling with AA/KK/QQ/AK, though BB pushing pretty much eliminates monsters from his potential holdings as he'd likely smooth call with AA/KK.

[etgryphon]

I'm not even sure that many hands is reasonable...

I would throw out AKo and keep maybe AKs

I would only call here with QQ or above...

In a situation like this you want to dump the race situations, where you are the underdog. The Button will only double up to 600 if he wins and he can get grinded out there. 600 is not much to work with and if he loses you are only "giving" 300 to the SB who has a pretty good chip lead. But if you a comfortable with second place and are hoping to get lucky you can secure it with the hands Klak stated.

If I was the first to act, I would go with Klak's recommendations, but not after a reraise allin.

-Gryph

[Rasputin]

Call and win, you're the big stack heads up.
Call and lose to the small stack, you're the small stack threeway.
Call and lose to the big stack, you're heads up against a guy with 3.5 times as many chips.
Fold and the short stack can't catch you and if the big stack wins he's only up 2-1.

I'm thinking AA or KK and that's probably it.

[Avgard]

I think you confused the chip situations in your analysis:

The first one is correct.

The second one states that if you call and lose to small stack and beat big stack, hero will be short stack 3 way. Actually hero would be big stack 3 way (6,400, 5,400 & 3,200).

The third one stated that if you call and lose to big stack you are heads up with big stack down 3.5 to 1. Actually, if small stack beat big stack, hero is out in third. If big stack wins hand outright, hero is out in second.

Last one is correct.

With the senarios listed, the only person you need to beat (or have a read on) is the big stack. The small stack can have pocket aces and it wouldn't matter. It only matters that you beat the big stack.

If you call and lose to the big stack, your out.

If you call and beat the big stack, you have the chip lead regardless of the small stack's hand.

- small stack wins, you will have T6,400, previous short stack will have T5,400 and previous big stack will have T3,200.

- small stack loses, he is third and you have T11,800 and previous big stack has T3,200.

This situation is unique in that you eliminate the short stack from the equation and analize what the big stack would go all in with. If he is the type that would with medium and low pairs, then your range would increase.

I agree that if you needed to consider both players, I would probably only call with AA, KK, QQ and AK. However, if your read on big stack is that he is very loose, you have a lot more hands you can include.

[Rasputin]

Yeah, I did...I guess I shouldn't try to think on Mondays.

[stillnotking]

SB raising all in is telling you "don't call". If you don't call, you're doing what the opponent wants you to do... generally bad in poker /images/graemlins/cool.gif

My read would be that the SB has a hand that plays fairly well heads up but does not like three way action, probably Ax, Kx or medium/small pocket pair. I would be inclined to gamble somewhat here and would call with any pair 99 or higher, or any 2 cards T, J, Q, K, A.

The only terrible outcome of this hand is that the SB beats you and the button beats the SB, thus giving you 3rd place money. Best case, you beat both of them and are in a very strong position to finish first, with the (former) big stack also posting the next big blind.

[A J Carisse]

First off, the fact you're in the money already is meaningful. IF there were, say, 3 other opponents, you want to let them do battle and I'd want a lot stronger hand to join in.

Let's look at the possibilities here.

1. You win - you get 2nd and the lead.
2. Top stack wins - you get 2nd
3. Small stack wins, you beat top stack
4. Small stack wins, you lose to top stack (out 3rd)

In cases 1 and 2, you have improved your position. In case 3. You have improved your position as well, as the chip leader with T6400. So it's only when both have you beat that you need to worry.

Therefore, from analyzing the situation, I'm not going to want to need the strength of hands that others have suggested. Still, I don't want to loosen up TOO much here, since I want an above average chance to avoid being 3rd. Pair of jacks or AQ would be enough.

A.J.

[Cleveland Guy]

I had QQ and I called.

the short stack had 44
and the big stack had AT.

Flop came Ten high, and blanks fell on the turn and river.

I went on to win in the next 5 hands or so.

Thanks for all your feedback.

I thought this was a more interesting way to ask "Should I fold QQ here", and it seems like some of you would have, some of you wouldn't.

I was more interested in people's thought process.

My thinking was that i was pretty sure I was ahead of at least 1 of them with my QQ. If they both had Ax - I'm in even better shape, as they are reducing their outs. If one has a pocket pair, I am dominating one.

As a couple posters stated, I really only need to finish 2nd in this hand. If I beat the small stack, I am guaranteed 2nd. If I beat the big stack, but lose to the small stack, I'm still chip leader, with 3 left, and If I win the hand I'm in a dominating position.

Odds of not beating 1 of them with QQ seemed to good to pass up.

[slickterp]

i agree with that. AA or KK