Limp capping for value with suited connectors

[bunky9590]

Borgata 3/6 with James 282, gonores, sfer, and FSUplayer
Awesome game with 5 fish and the gang. 4 out of hands are being capped preflop and every pot is a monster.

I have 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif 9 /images/graemlins/club.gif UTG and announce to the table that I am open limping UTG. The table does a double take and the fish behind me proceed on cue to call, 3 callers to FSU who calls, SFer folds, gonores raises, James 282 three bets from the SB , I cap for value. Table does a double take again. The fish and the gane proceed to call. MONSTER POT.

7 to the flop , capped. 14BB pot Preflop.

Flop K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 6 /images/graemlins/club.gif 7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif
Looks like a good flop for me.
gonores bets from the SB, James282 folds, I raise, 2 fish cold call, FSU calls, gonores calls.

Turn T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 19BB
I knew it was coming. gonores stop and go bets, Bunky raises,

Gonores says "you limp capped with 89?"
Bunky" you honestly believe I limp capped with 89 from UTG?"

1 fish cold calls, FSU raises, Gonores calls, Bunky caps. Fish calls, FSU calls, gonores folds.

River Brick. 34 BB
Bunky bets, fish folds, FSU calls.

Anyone not like the suited connector play from UTG in huge pots? Had equity to call with all the fish dead money.



Total pot: 37 BB

[bdk3clash]

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Borgata 3/6 with James 282, gonores, sfer, and FSUplayer

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http://img16.exs.cx/img16/6299/badplayers.jpg

[Evan]

I'm laughing just thinking about that.

There are tooooooooooo many bad players.

[bunky9590]

That mean you no likey?


Couldn't come sit with us? Wuss.

Stay in your 6-12 stuck 25 bets. /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[Evan]

I'll fill in the missing pieces for those that are interested.

2 weeks ago me, bdk3clash, sthief09, sfer, JBB and edtost were playing 4/8 in NYC. bdk3 found a copy of Poker Essays and brought it over to the table. He was reading sections from it and whenever someone used any poker termonology he'd look it up and explain it to everyone. Whenever someone showed down a bad hand or someone did something stupid he'd turn to taht section and say, "There are just tooooooo many bad players."

It was really quite hilarious.

[bunky9590]

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It was really quite hilarious.




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Must be that NYC humor.


tell me this though, wouldn't you rather have this hand in a monster multiway pot than say a big pair? With that flop?

[spamuell]

tell me this though, wouldn't you rather have this hand in a monster multiway pot than say a big pair?

No.

With that flop?

Did you know what the flop was going to be?

You must really love the first appendix of Carson's book.

[Evan]

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Must be that NYC humor

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Maybe. When are you making the pilgrimage up here to enjoy that fine NYC humor?

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wouldn't you rather have this hand in a monster multiway pot than say a big pair?

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I'd still take aces but i don't think your play was awful, if you had position I might even like it.

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With that flop?

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If I know that I'm flopping an open ender then yea, but my pattern mapper never gets good reception in the Borg.

[bunky9590]

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You must really love the first appendix of Carson's book.

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Never read carson. Thank god.


I'll sure a heck take a flop with that 7 handed, I can handle the variance.

Espcially when it was getting capped by T6s on occasion, and fish were calling with K4o. My hand suddenly looks a whole lot better.

Deception value. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[bisonbison]

bdk3 found a copy of Poker Essays and brought it over to the table. He was reading sections from it and whenever someone used any poker termonology he'd look it up and explain it to everyone. Whenever someone showed down a bad hand or someone did something stupid he'd turn to taht section and say, "There are just tooooooo many bad players."

This is the funniest thing I have read all week. Kudos, brad.

[sthief09]

was the cap a "fun" cap, or did you really think it was the best play? there's no way capping is really the best move there

[spamuell]

Hey Bunky,

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Never read carson. Thank god.


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Seriously, his book is good. There's a lot of stuff in there that wasn't really written about pre-SSH, specifically to do with pot equity and the value of suited cards.

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I'll sure a heck take a flop with that 7 handed, I can handle the variance.


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I didn't say you shouldn't take a flop with it.

[bunky9590]

we were effing around

[bunky9590]

thanks bud.

We were effing around major.

Also i figured it was going to get capped anyway, I KNEW the fish would call (heck they alreasy invested 3 whole dollars, whats 9 more right? I may as well take the initiative against the LAGs to my right. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Fun hand though.

Just another night at the borgata 3-6.

[DonWaade]

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was the cap a "fun" cap, or did you really think it was the best play? there's no way capping is really the best move there

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But if he "KNEW" that all of the fish were going to call, it was a good play. His hand plays much better with more money and more people in the hand. If his read was good enough to know that the whales would play, then I applaud his cap.

[spamuell]

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His hand plays much better with more money and more people in the hand.

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Forget "more people" because capping is not going to make more people call.

You could argue his hand plays better with more money in the pot, you'd get into the whole pot equity vs implied odds thing, because I'm sure that it's easy to put the limpers on hands which are bad enough that 98s does have significant pot equity. So I don't know the answer, but please explain why you think you're right.

[sfer]

This was a situation that probably most closely approximated the "win more than your fair share against x random hands going to showdown" thing always talked about for pot equity.

[Snoogins47]

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You must really love the first appendix of Carson's book.

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Never read carson. Thank god.


I'll sure a heck take a flop with that 7 handed, I can handle the variance.

Espcially when it was getting capped by T6s on occasion, and fish were calling with K4o. My hand suddenly looks a whole lot better.

Deception value. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

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Yes, that's key... if the limpers will call 3 cold more often than not, so you figure to play this pot 7 or so handed, this is probably mathematically correct. On the other hand, I don't have near the brainpower to handle a complete analysis, and I don't have anywhere near the experience to actually fathom a legitimate "range" of hands that you might be up against, so pokerstove ain't gonna cut it either.

Even if it's not quite a +EV play... it sure is fun, ain't it? Did you say something about gambling, or use the word "cappucino?"

[DonWaade]

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Forget "more people" because capping is not going to make more people call.


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If you re-read my post, I said if he "KNEW" that the fish would call a cap then it is a smart bet. There is still a lot of people in the hand and a lot of money in the pot. This is EXACTLY what you want with suited connectors. A big pot give you odds to chase. Most the time it is easier to make a big pot with more people.

[spamuell]

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Forget "more people" because capping is not going to make more people call.


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If you re-read my post, I said if he "KNEW" that the fish would call a cap then it is a smart bet.

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If you re-read my post, you'll note that I didn't say that less people are going to call, I just said that capping will not make more people call.

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There is still a lot of people in the hand and a lot of money in the pot. This is EXACTLY what you want with suited connectors. A big pot give you odds to chase.

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This is just rubbish. Firstly, if the pot is 3-bet pre-flop multiway, you're going to have the odds to chase any draw anyway. Secondly, it doesn't matter if you have odds to chase after the flop, you should focus on the play with the highest expectation. There's no reason to give up money pre-flop to chase. I'm not saying that seeing the flop for 4 bets with 98s with a bunch of loose players is -EV, I'm just saying that for reasons of implied odds, if you can see the flop for 3 bets it's probably more +EV than seeing it for four bets. This is just what I feel, I'm not sure how to calculate this.

Giving yourself "odds to chase" should not be a motive for giving up money pre-flop, though. You'll chase if it's +EV and you won't if it isn't.