pleas critique my play (i learned something on this hand)

[fireman664]

***** Hand History for Game 1171907156 *****
0/0 TEXASHTGAMETABLE (NL) - FRI NOV 12 23:28:47 EST 2004
Table Table 14455 (6 max) (Real Money) -- Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 5

Seat 1: fire ( $151.85)
Seat 2: SB( $81)
Seat 4: R( $694.15)
Seat 5: BB ( $93)
Seat 6: sT-P ( $162.45)
SB posts small blind (1)
BB posts big blind (2)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to fire [ 9s, As ]
sT-P raises (6) to 6
fire calls (6)
folds.
folds.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 6s, 8d, 2s ]
sT-P bets (10)
fire raises (25) to 25
sT-P calls (15)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 9h ]
sT-P checks.
fire bets (120.85)
fire is all-In.
sT-P calls (120.85)
** Dealing River ** : [ Ks ]
Creating Main Pot with $304.7 with fire
** Summary **
Main Pot: $304.7 | | Rake: $2
Board: [ 6s 8d 2s 9h Ks ]

[jt1]

You're a LAG! Anyone agree with calling a raise with A9s, let alone an UTG raise? As for the rest of the hand, I suppose the first raise was okay, if that's your' thing, but when he calls it, you should know that he has an overpair.

[fireman664]

I think my preflop call is ok with the stack size and positions ect.

Flop, I think this is a good one for me. 2 overcards, and nut flush draw. My re-raise is a semi bluff, and his call suggests maybe AK to me.

Turn, the 9 gives me top pair now, with an overcard, and still nut flush draw. ALOT of outs, and I think I might even be the favorite.

results, my flush is abviously good....but he shows AA.

I plugged this hand into the hand calculator and learned this. On this flop, he was a 61% fav. No surprise to me there. but AFTER I made top pair on the turn, he actually becomes a 75% fav.??? I thought I would have improved.

even without sharing an ACE (him with KK) he still is a bigger favorite at about 68%. I really feel like a suckout artist now, because I really thought this was about a race at this point.

Fireman

[fireman664]

I was the button...

"Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 5

Seat 1: fire ( $151.85)"

[fireman664]

you really think seeing that flop with those stacks is LAG at a 6 handed table??? I see under 30% flops.

[greg nice]

terrible preflop call

[fireman664]

i appreciate the comments. Terrible preflop call is an over statment though IMO. You might not agree with calling 3 times the bigblind with that hand (this is less than 5% of our stacks). but Im going to muck it even if I hit the ace and get action. so therefore I dont think its that loose at a 6 handed table that is being raised to 6 or 8 every hand.

Id like to hear from others about this too.

again, thanks

[greg nice]

well you are right, i was a bit extreme in my comments. as long as youre certain you can fold to action when an ace flops and you can successfully outplay and take down pots, its worthwhile.

[greg nice]

thinking about it further, the problem is basically the gap concept. that you need a strong hand to call than you do need to bet youreslf. the preflop raiser will usually bet on the flop, and if you dont like an ace flop, youre basically looking for a flush to semi bluff. therefore i still think its a fold. i would like it 10x more if you were the one raising.

[BK_]

the pf call is bordering on terrible. the utg raiser could easily have an ace that dominates yours. also the fact that your hand is suited is virtually worthless here, as there is no money in the pot. playing a medium ace vs a preflop raiser is kinda like poker suicide. the best case scenario is that you hit your ace, he hits nothign or has a lower pair, and you win the smallish pot. i would rather call his raise with something like kqs than a9s.

[fireman664]

My thinking preflop is really very simple. We are 5 handed, and I have position on a not very big standard raise with (and I know I left this out) a calling station in the blind (who didnt call). Also remember my read on this guy was semi loose passive. (he was seeing 44% of the flops...again, 5 handed).

My concern with my play was mostly about the fact that I thought pairing my 9 helped me alot. After plugging into the hand calculator I learned it doesnt.

Also, I went back to my pokertracker stats to see how hands like A8s-A9s-A10s work out for me....all of them average + $3 a hand or more (244 A9s hands for example), so although it might be a loose play, I dont see changing it for me as long as I can let it go like I have been.

Its amazing how much there is to learn about this game.....and Ive been playing as a "job" (part time anyway) for almost 2 years now. amd thanks to you guys making me nervous about my AX hands, I just learned something else...AQ has a negative expectation for me....I guess the difference is that I am not nearly as willing to let it go like i would Ax when the Ace hits.

[soah]

[ QUOTE ]
My thinking preflop is really very simple. We are 5 handed, and I have position on a not very big standard raise with (and I know I left this out) a calling station in the blind (who didnt call). Also remember my read on this guy was semi loose passive. (he was seeing 44% of the flops...again, 5 handed).

[/ QUOTE ]

You are calling me loose/passive, or the blind (who's not even in this hand)? I have a VP$IP of 22% and I raised from UTG. You have the best hand here virtually never. And after I raised preflop from UTG I'm betting virtually very flop into a single caller. This includes ace-high flops regardless of whether I have an ace. You'll either be folding the best hand or giving me action on my better aces regardless of how you handle those decisions.

As for the flop, I'm not calling a raise on the flop with no pair and no draw. As I said at the table... I'm not in the habit of spewing chips with ace high. If you really believed I had AK then you had no reason to overbet the pot like that once you paired your kicker. Why scare someone off that is drawing to three outs? And at Party 6-max no one (me included) is folding an overpair on that board hardly ever. I considered that you may have hit a set but your play seemed way too over-aggressive for that. It really felt like you wanted me to fold, so I called. Sucks to be me.

And regarding your odds of sucking out, a pair plus flush draw against a bigger pair is roughly a coinflip ON THE FLOP. On the turn it's obviously much worse. The fact that your ace outs were dead hurts you even more. You got all your money in drawing to 11 outs with only one card to come. I made a lot of Sklansky dollars on this hand.

[soah]

Actually, since this was four-handed I will be raising UTG with a wider variety of hands. But never any ace worse than A9. You're either going to win a small pot or lose a big one if you pair your ace.

As for the BB of this hand, he'll limp with any two cards but he was not calling raises with trash. Nor was he dumping a lot of chips post-flop. (I saw him work his way up to $900 at one table later that day.) Counting on him to help pad the pot for you was perhaps too optimistic. If he gives you a lot of action, you should worry that he has you beaten as well.

[fireman664]

That last part of your statement is the one I think I finally just learned. I really pride myself on getting my money in with the best of it. When you showed AA, I realized I didnt do that, but what I didnt realize until now is how far behind I was. When I paired my 9 on the turn, I really thought it helped me, and made a 60-40% flop even closer by given me more outs. Apparently I was wrong.

You also taught me I need to avoid 2+2ers at the table lol, no really i need to make sure my read is against the right player, because I think I got you and the BB confused, and based some of my play on that read.
I still like my raise on the flop, it lets me win the pot right there (since you will come out betting regardless if you hit), and It also would have bought me a free card, although getting a player like yourself to call a big bet with an obvious flush if I hit it on the river would be tough.

[Yeti]

I think people are being very harsh on the preflop call. It looks fine to me, obviously don't even think about calling out of position with this hand.

Flop is fine, maybe make it 30. Check behind on the turn.

[soah]

When you raised the flop I thought your most likely holdings were a pocket pair (hoping I had overcards), a flush draw, a set, or nothing. In roughly that order. If you check behind on the turn then the order changes to flush draw, nothing, small pair, overpair, set. I wouldn't be happy about a flush on the river but I'd probably call a medium-size bet since there are many hands that I beat that would be tempted to bet/bluff again after I check twice.

I'm not really sure I played that hand too great but my read on you was about as non-existant as your read on me. I had a vague idea of how you played from the past few hands but nothing specific that I can recall now.

[fireman664]

at that point, I had 22 hands at that table. Plus I am getting in bodybuilding competition shape, so I was walking on a treadmill with my new wireless setup. This may be a big factor as to why I got you confused with the BB.

I think if you push over the top of me on that flop, I lay it down. Your call confused me, because I expected an overpair to push (which may be why you only called, because you ultimatly got what you wanted, all my money in when I'm a big dog). I just see so many AK type hands bet out the flop. I just misread your call.

I appreciate you discussing the hand though, because I think I have learned alot. Alot of players wouldnt help the guy who sucked out on them! lol