55 stop and go with two posters--also, Evan sucks

[scrub]

Just wanted to try out the new post subject format...

Bay 101 20/40.

UTG + 1 is pretty erratic. He raises an extremely wide range of hands from EP and plays pretty poorly after the flop--he will overplay many holdings on the flop (he is in autobet/raise mode on the flop for his first action after raising preflop), fewer on the turn, and is not the kind of guy who is likely to lay down a strong hand like bottom pair. There is an MP poster and a LP poster in the hand. Both posters (and everyone else at the table, for that matter) are very loose and very passive, both posters are substantially tighter after the flop than preflop, but will still call for one on the flop with a hand for which they can envision a scenario that lets them win (any overcards, a 3-straight and an overcard, etc.).

My guess is that I have a tight image--the only hand I've played up until now was an LP raise with AK where I paired the flop, waited until the turn to raise a single caller in the blinds who bet out, and showed down the winner. I am sitting with a 2p2er who is chattering too much and who has recently drastically overdefended his SB v. AK, which might make me a maniac by association.

I am in the BB. I have 5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif5 /images/graemlins/club.gif.

UTG+1 raises--he's done this every time there has been a lot of money dead in the pot, even though it's never led to him seeing a flop with fewer than 5 players.

Folded to MP poster, who calls. LP poster calls. I call.

Flop is 8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 4 /images/graemlins/heart.gif. 8.5 sb (no rake--dead button drop)

I bet. UTG+1 raises (excellent) fold, fold, call.

Turn is 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif. I bet. UTG+1 looks less than pleased. He calls.

River is 4/images/graemlins/club.gif Check, check.

Thoughts?

scrub

[sublime]

scrub-
nice reads on the table, i like the hand all the way to the river and am wondering if there is much value in a bet?

will he bet worse hands if checked to? doubtfull. will he call with worse hands? again doubtfull. so that equals a check, right? i need to read TOP again /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[private joker]

Why not pull the trigger one more time? He might fold a better hand (despite your read that he has a hard time laying down bottom pair -- you did bet into him after he raised your flop bet); also, the board pairing might convince him that you have his hand crushed.

[jordanx]

Good line, he might have you beat with 77 or 6x, maybe top pair and is thinking you have a straight.

Players who visibly show signs of displeasure, like a sigh, or 'oh great' sometimes means they have something, but the board kinda screwed their hand.

There is a chance you are still ahead, but not enough to value bet river.

I doubt he'd lay down even J-high at this point.

[Tosh]

I bet. I think he sounds like someone to call with Ax high. Check folding seems bad for image and check calling looks like more -EV.

[Evan]

[ QUOTE ]
Evan sucks

[/ QUOTE ]
Clever, they must be very proud at Princeton

[ QUOTE ]
Just wanted to try out the new post subject format...

[/ QUOTE ]
Well let's all make sure scrub is happy
[ QUOTE ]
Bay 101 20/40

[/ QUOTE ]
Not SS, try your new format somewhere else buddy


Anyway, now that that's over with...

The flop bet seems standard into a guy that will autoraise with overs (or maybe even just over) and is liekly to have some piece of crap based on your read.

For some reason I want to say that the turn hit him, does anyone else get this feeling? I wanna say he has A2s and that look of displeasuer translates to, "Damn, I have a piece, I have to see a showdown".

Now for the fun one. I don't know how crazy I am about the river check. This is not to say that I don't like it, I genuinely don't know yet. I think what's important here that wasn't included in your read was how likely this guy is to bluff/semi-bluff the river. You said he would overplay fewer hands on the turn than the flop, but would he take a stab at the river with Ace high or bottom pair if you check? If you know he's likely to do this then I guess you were check-calling which sucks. If you don't think he's stupid/tricky (I find those words are often interchangable) enough to bet a worse hand then 55 then I guess you can check-fold, but this seems like a guy that might call you with a decent Ace (maybe any ace) or a 2 to try to "keep you honest". So in summery, I think that there's value in a river bet. Also, if he wakes up again and bets when you check to him then both of your options suck.

[edtost]

[ QUOTE ]
how likely this guy is to bluff/semi-bluff the river

[/ QUOTE ]

semi-bluffing the river is impossible.

[Evan]

Eh, I use this term a lot. I mean to make a bet/raise with a marginal hand like middle/bottom pair that could just as easily be a value bet or a bluff.

What should I be calling this? Because I've been told repeatedly that "semi-bluffing the river is not possible blah blah blah". Yea I know that.

[Tosh]

[ QUOTE ]

What should I be calling this?

[/ QUOTE ]

Fuzzy thinking.

[Evan]

are you saying that you don't think this is possible?

[sthief09]

look at the card you stop and go'ed. a deuce. he can't really think you just picked something up. because of this, I really think he has A high, so I'd bet if I thought he'd pay off with A high

[Tosh]

When you have no reads its possible, I just dislike the thinking behind it.

[Evan]

ok, forget semi-bluff, just say bluff the river.

[bunky9590]

Looks good to me bud. the stop and go usually freezes up people form getting too frisky on the turn with weak hands.

Looks like Ace high overs to me.

[Michael Davis]

Well you certainly can't fold the river so why not bet?

-Michael

[scrub]

[ QUOTE ]

Well you certainly can't fold the river so why not bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah. I went back and forth on betting the river.

I decided that he was more likely to bluff missed overs than value bet a 6 or an 8. I'm not sure, in retrospect, that this was the right read.

It's one of those situations where I think I played the hand like I was playing against an overly aggressive online guy instead of a goofy but not as stupid live guy.

scrub

[scrub]

[ QUOTE ]

Not SS, try your new format somewhere else buddy


[/ QUOTE ]

I think the flop/turn play here is a concept that belongs in this forum. It's a multiway pot with dead passive money in it and I'm playing the hand to try to get rid of the posters.

scrub

[Evan]

I agree. That was my clever retort to your title. I failed.

[scrub]

He had A6o.

I think he would have needed a pretty good ace to call a river bet, and I didn't think good aces were any more likely than bad aces.

I was pretty sure he didn't have an 8.

I did not think he would value bet a 6 in this spot on the river.

I didn't know him that well, and he was erratic enough that I thought there might be a chance that he would bluff raise with some no pair hand trying to represent a 4, and the pot was big enough that I didn't feel comfortable folding to a river raise on a card that I thought might induce a bizzare bluff.

I thought there was a chance that he would bluff some of the bad aces that he would fold to a bet.

All in all, I'm still not sure if I should have bet.

Thanks for the responses!

scrub

[DanS]

[ QUOTE ]
Just wanted to try out the new post subject format...

(and everyone else at the table, for that matter) are very loose and very passive

scrub

[/ QUOTE ]


Thanks... you dick. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Dan


Edit:

Didn't see this part:

" I am sitting with a 2p2er who is chattering too much and who has recently drastically overdefended his SB v. AK, which might make me a maniac by association."

I do resemble that statement, lol.