74o. Maybe I should've just folded to the turn check-raise . . .

[Nick C]

. . . but I didn't. Value bet the river?

Reads: I'd been watching the table for most of an orbit, and already I didn't like it.

Party Poker 2/4

Hero is BB with 4 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 7 /images/graemlins/club.gif

8 folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: J /images/graemlins/heart.gif 9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

Turn: 5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

SB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, Hero calls.

River: Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif

SB checks, Hero . . .?

Feel free to comment on my turn play too.

[spydog]

Flop: Good bet.
Turn: Good bet. Call the raise, you have a flush draw.
River: Bet and fold to a raise.

Ugly hand, but if you bet the river, I think you done OK.

[StellarWind]

This is a difficult hand. People should post more of these.

Without a read I think you need to call the turn checkraise. Otherwise normal LL players can become very aggressive blind versus blind and he could be bluffing or semibluffing. Since you have a pair and a lot of potential outs you need to call him down.

I hate betting the river ... but it's probably the correct play. I worry that he checkraised with a small flush and panicked when the fourth one hit. I also worry about getting checkraised again and not knowing if it's A /images/graemlins/heart.gif or a bluff.

[bobdibble]

[ QUOTE ]
This is a difficult hand. People should post more of these.

Without a read I think you need to call the turn checkraise. Otherwise normal LL players can become very aggressive blind versus blind and he could be bluffing or semibluffing. Since you have a pair and a lot of potential outs you need to call him down.

I hate betting the river ... but it's probably the correct play. I worry that he checkraised with a small flush and panicked when the fourth one hit. I also worry about getting checkraised again and not knowing if it's A /images/graemlins/heart.gif or a bluff.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm.. you are a million times better than me, but I don't understand calling the CR.

You have bottom pair, no kicker and a kicker that could completed someones OESD (if he is semi-bluffing it) at that. If he cr'd with the flush, those outs are no good unless he specifically has the 23 /images/graemlins/heart.gif.

The pot is pretty small. Is it worth calling the CR in light of all of this? I fold to the CR. Weak?

[StellarWind]

[ QUOTE ]
The pot is pretty small. Is it worth calling the CR in light of all of this? I fold to the CR. Weak?

[/ QUOTE ]
The problem is that when everyone folds to the SB it just became a 2-player game. Getting a strong hand is really hard. Ace high is well above average. Any pair is a good hand.

Good players understand this and play very aggressively in this situation. Bluffs are powerful because most of the time your opponent didn't make anything either. If you can't call the checkraise with a pair and many potential outs you won't be calling very often. Not nearly often enough to prevent him from stealing all your money by constant bluffing.

Calling is good if he is 1) completely bluffing, 2) betting a made hand with no hearts, or 3) semibluffing a high flush draw with no made hand. Against someone who is playing aggressively, that is most of the time. This is an easy call.

Except ... many low-level players play so badly that they won't try this checkraise without a flush. Which means he also forgot to bet the flop with a flush draw. It really hurts to payoff when that happens. You want to try and identify such players so that you can exploit their horrible passive play by folding against sharp aggression. But you will still win heavily in the long run by playing "properly" against passive idiots. You just won't win as much as you could have.

[Nick C]

Thanks for the responses. I should mention that part of the context for this hand is that it took place shortly after I read StellarWind's J2o BB post.

Anyway, after the turn check-raise, I spent nearly my full twenty seconds deciding that there was too good of a chance I was behind a hand with no hearts or ahead of a hand with a better heart for me to fold.

When I was checked to on the river, I thought I should bet. And I'd feel better about the hand if I HAD bet. But after stopping to think again, I decided that my long delay on the turn invited another check-raise, and I didn't want to have to figure out what to do if I was check-raised a second time. So I took the cowardly route and checked behind.

SB showed J /images/graemlins/spade.gif J /images/graemlins/club.gif, and I took the pot with my flush.

[feelixthegreek]

Serves him right. Greedy splowplay on his part.

[slogger]

...bets.

Very few players are checking a heart on the river after betting the turn.