Question about potential Stud8 SnG ROI

[DCIAce]

I have a ROI in the mid 20s after a few hundred $10+1 NLHE SnGs (This includes the absolute most card-dead, bad-beat filled streak of my life, with 12 OOTM finishes).

After 44 Stud 8/b $10+1s the results have been:
1st: 11
2nd: 9
3rd: 5
4th: 8
5th: 1
6th: 2
7th: 3
8th: 5

For 56.8% ITM, and a 52.1% ROI.

What's struck me is how completely terrible the average player in these is. 2-3 per table see 5th street every hand, and 7th about 90%, coldcalling 2-3 bets with low pairs or 3-to-a-low on 5th street.

I know it's a terribly small sample size, but I'm not a great Stud8 player (just way way tighter than the average, playing only 3 to a 7low or better, 3 to a flush with 2 to a wheel, Trips, AA-baby, and a couple other hands in the first couple rounds), and I'm seeing nice results. I think an ROI in the mid 40s is very possible, and perhaps 50+ for a great player.

Only problem is that there aren't many of these games going, and virtually none at a high level. Right now on PP, there's: 10 10+1s, 3 30+3s, and none higher, with a 10+1, 30+3, 50+5, and 100+9 accepting signups.

[Irieguy]

Well, your sample size is essentially 1 SNG, so I wouldn't use your current results as the basis for any conclusion about the profitability of those games.

I am a H/L split player. The majority of my 15 years as a poker player has been spent playing mostly h/l type games, though I started as a holdem player. The reason why I play primarily NLHE now is because it's much easier to beat that game, even though I play h/l split games much better. So, here's my opinion on limit stud-8 SNGs:

SNGs are beatable because you can do 3 things:

1. Wait for people to go broke.
2. Exploit weak players in the middle stages.
3. Utilize a non-exploitable end-game strategy.

NL holdem is set up perfectly for this because 1) people can go broke in 1 hand if they choose, 2)you can charge opponents their whole stack for weak errors, and 3) end-game strategy can be simplified to push/fold which makes it harder to exploit and faster to execute than it would be in a limit structure.

The problem with all of the limit h/l SNGs is that the structure is too slow, and the betting limits too fixed for the above strategies to be applied within the blind structure used. With the way you play, you can beat the rake, but barely. Your earn will just be too small to justify the time spent.

Now, the PLO-8 split SNGs can be beat for at least a 25% ROI up to the $55 level, but the limit h/l split games are a different story. Believe me, if there was any way to make a decent dime playing split poker SNGs, that's exactly what I'd be doing. I don't even particularly like hold'em... but it's just too easy to pass up.

I would be very eager to hear from somebody with at least 500 SNGs of experience at limit h/l SNGs that could tell me differently. If you continue to pursue it, please let me know your results after 300-500.

Luck and justice to you-

Irieguy

[lorinda]

Again, tiny sample size coming up.

I can't play stud8, but 4-tabled the $11s on Party back in May just to see how bad the players were.
I know what starting hands to play give or take, and have fundamentally sound sng strategy, but have never had advice on how to play beyond that.

1st: 7
2nd: 9
3rd: 9
Other: 23

ITM 52.1%
ROI 21%

Lori

[DCIAce]

[ QUOTE ]
I would be very eager to hear from somebody with at least 500 SNGs of experience at limit h/l SNGs that could tell me differently. If you continue to pursue it, please let me know your results after 300-500.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'll probably put in a couple hundred in the next month. As of now, I'm playing on a laptop, and it's a pain in the ass to multi-table, but I have a new computer being delivered Monday or so, and I'll pick up a crappy 19" monitor so that I can 4-table without overlap. I think that Stud is slow enough paced that I should be able to 4-table effectively if I stagger-start.

I played at least 100 of these before I kept tourney-by-tourney records, and I was up somewhere around $300-$400, but, like I said, no records, and blended into the NLHE SnGs and LHE ring games.. so "ROI of 20-40% through 80-150 games" sounds pretty stupid. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

I'll get 300 or 400 done in the next month or so, and report back. I just wasn't sure if anyone had been playing many of these, and could comment on whether or not a very-high ROI was possible.