Flopped a set of Js, only AA beats me, when to slow down? [Archive]

View Full Version : Flopped a set of Js, only AA beats me, when to slow down?

BigBaitsim (milo)

11-13-2004, 10:28 AM

Table is your fairly regular Party SS table on a Friday night, too loose. Only 105 hands on nemesis but he has a V$IP of 23 and a PFR of 13. I but wonder if and when you can slow down when only one hand beats you, AA. His cap preflop tells me he has something strong, but AA? I'm not at all worried about a straight on the river, if he played 35 or 57 this way, I'm happy to give him my money this hand.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: BigBeitzim is MP3 with J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
2 folds, UTG+2 raises, MP1 calls, 1 fold, BigBeitzim 3-bets, 4 folds, UTG+2 caps, MP1 calls, BigBeitzim calls.

Flop: (13.33 SB) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
UTG+2 bets, MP1 folds, BigBeitzim raises, UTG+2 3-bets, BigBeitzim caps, UTG+2 calls.

Turn: (10.66 BB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
UTG+2 bets, BigBeitzim calls.

River: (12.66 BB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
UTG+2 bets, BigBeitzim raises, UTG+2 3-bets, BigBeitzim calls.

Final Pot: 18.66 BB

Evan

11-13-2004, 10:34 AM

Regardless of if/when you can slow down, what was up with that turn/river play? Call the turn then raise the river?

thirddan

11-13-2004, 10:35 AM

i would have raised the turn called the 3bet then called on the river, in the odd chance that he checks the river i would bet and pay off a c/r...

AJ/AA/66 are the only somewhat reasonable hands for him...AJ is unlikely because it can only be made a couple ways and would probably have slowed down thinking you might have AA...66 most likely wouldn't be played like this preflop...

Evan

11-13-2004, 10:39 AM

Don't you think AA would c/r the turn?

thirddan

11-13-2004, 10:42 AM

not necessarily... this may sound weird, but i think that if a player would have 5 bet the flop they will lead the turn hoping to 3bet...

what do you put villain on?

I also agree that Milo's turn/river play are weird...

nepenthe

11-13-2004, 10:46 AM

The most pivotal information here is his postflop aggression. There is a group of players who routinely cap preflop but become comparatively sane postflop. There is a subset of these players who maintain their LAGness from preflop up to the flop then slow down on the final 2 streets. Some players like to go absolutely nuts postflop with any pair/draw, and/or like to bluff-(re)raise the river with busted draws/marginal holdings. Against these players it may sometimes be correct to cap the turn with a holding such as QQ on an A-high board.

Without a read on his postflop play, I'd probably go as far as raising the turn and calling down further aggression.

BigBaitsim (milo)

11-13-2004, 11:07 AM

Yes, the turn/river play was bad. I think I got momentarily frightened by the cap on the flop. I'd missed an obvious four hearts on the board just a few hands earlier and had action on several other tables to tend to. When I looked again and saw that only AA beat me, I raised the river. When 3-bet I called, figuring AJ was less likely than AA given the action thus far.

BigBaitsim (milo)

11-13-2004, 04:21 PM

Nemesis shows AA for the dreaded set over set.

StellarWind

11-13-2004, 05:38 PM

AA = 3 hands
KK = 6 hands
QQ = 6 hands
AK = 12 hands

1/9 of all routine cap hands are AA. Accordingly, the idea that you could be behind should occur to you when you see the flop.

When he bets the turn you should become seriously worried.

When you raise the turn (as you should against an aggressive player) and get 3-bet you should expect to lose. Then you quietly call down.

Waiting until the river is inferior. You could easily lose a bet against AK when he checks the river. For example he may panic if the third club hits.

supersub

11-14-2004, 12:06 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Some players like to go absolutely nuts postflop with any pair/draw, and/or like to bluff-(re)raise the river with busted draws/marginal holdings. Against these players it may sometimes be correct to cap the turn with a holding such as QQ on an A-high board.

[/ QUOTE ]

cap the turn with QQ on an Ace high board? that demands a pretty darn good read. Just because they are maniacs, they can´t have an Ace? I assume you show some strength preflop and on the flop.

anyway..., that is some gutsy poker. If I saw that happen a couple of times at one of my tables, I would probably e-mail support in suspiction of collusion or chip dumping. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

nepenthe

11-14-2004, 01:41 AM

[ QUOTE ]
cap the turn with QQ on an Ace high board? that demands a pretty darn good read. Just because they are maniacs, they can´t have an Ace? I assume you show some strength preflop and on the flop.

anyway..., that is some gutsy poker. If I saw that happen a couple of times at one of my tables, I would probably e-mail support in suspiction of collusion or chip dumping.

[/ QUOTE ]

It was a heads-up situation so if it were a collusion it would have to be fairly calculated indeed /images/graemlins/crazy.gif This guy was raising, reraising and capping preflop with anything suited, any ace, any offsuit two-gapper, and occasionally 10-2 offsuit. Never slowed down postflop with any bottom pair, any single gutshot draw, any runner-runner flush draw right up to the capped turn. Not only did I cap the turn with QQ on an A-high board with this guy, I checkraised/capped him /images/graemlins/cool.gif