30-60 4 handed Ts7c

im on the button and i open raise with Ts7c. sb calls, bb folds.


the flop is Jh9h2s. checked to me, i bet, he raises, i call.


the turn is 7d. he bets, i raise, he calls.


the river is 9s. he bets, i call.


comments?

I think for comments on such plays, and for shorthanded plays in general, you really need to give more information about your opponents and their habits. As for your hand, the turnraise is certainly not an automatic one IMO, and it could in fact be right or wrong entirely dependant on your opponent. If your opponent will not laydown a pair here (and he certainly wouldnt lay down a draw), I dont see much profit in a turnraise, because with just calling down you can either let him hang himself or not get the difficulty where you get 3-bet (where you probably should call because of the size of the pot with your gutshot). And even then it still hurts to lay down on the river, where you probably also have to call if he's capable of making strong moves with QhTh type hands. If he can however lay down a 9 on the turn or something, then ofcourse a raise is much more valuable.


BTW with what does a 30/60 shorthanded player just coldcall a buttonraise with in the SB? QhTh type of hands?


Regards

"BTW with what does a 30/60 shorthanded player just coldcall a buttonraise with in the SB?"


probably many of the same hands a 9-18 or 6-12 player calls with as many of the people playing 30-60 are not any better, theyre just richer.

Shorthanded, QT offsuit is a fine hand to call a raise with (maybe even reraise against a steal, though I usually won't). Calling is even more automatic in a 2 chip SB game (like 15-30). There are many weaker hands that should be called with here too.


BTW: I don't like the turn raise, for the reasons the Ikke stated above. Just call it down - if he's ahead, you'll be glad you didn't raise. If you're in the lead, let him bluff his cash to you. If you get 3-bet, you can't like your hand too much.

I think Ikke's comments are right on (about needing more info on opponent). E.g.

1) What does his check raise on flop mean? (If it means he has top pair, you should fold)

2) What hands would he check with on flop?

3) What hands would be bet with?


Most good short hand players will lead on the flop most of the time. The fact that he checked could mean he was sandbagging, or trying for a free card.


Whether you should bet on the flop, and call his check-raise, depends on the answer to these questions. It seems to me in almost every case, your calling his check-raise would be correct (not many players would only check-raise with top pair or better), but whether you should bet the flop is a more difficult decision, depending very much on your opponents habits.


I think your raising on the turn may be correct, depending on your opponent. Once he's shown strength on the flop, he's more or lessed forced to bet on the turn. If he's the type of opponent that would much more likely check raise a drawing hand than a made hand, then raising on the turn would be correct. Would he be more likely to check his made hands on the flop, or lead out with them? Same question for drawing hands.


The fact that he didn't re-raise you on the turn is promising.


Now for the river. You didn't re-raise him on the flop. With a pair of Jacks, would you have re-raised him? If yes, does he know that? If so, then he knows you can't have JJ. If he knows you can't have JJ, then he wouldn't be afraid of the 7 on the turn. He would have re-raised you with 99. That means he doesn't have 99, so your 77 should be good. So you could re-raise on the river when the 9 hits.


Summing up:

1) Whether betting on the flop was correct or not would depend very much on the opponent

2) Calling the check-raise on the flop was almost certainly correct

3) Whether raising on the turn was correct would depend on the oppoenent habits (how likely he is to check raise drawing hands vs. made hands on flop)

4) Once he calls on turn, you should be confident of being ahead, and therefore re-raise on river.


At least, I don't know many players that wouldn't re-raise on the turn with a hand that would beat 77, so the 9 on the river was a very good card for you. The only hand that comes to mind that would beat you, given the above betting sequence, and a normal opponent, is 88.

"I think Ikke's comments are right on (about needing more info on opponent). E.g.

1) What does his check raise on flop mean? (If it means he has top pair, you should fold)

2) What hands would he check with on flop?

3) What hands would be bet with?"


i didnt have the luxury of knowing the answers to these questions. i had some sense that his checkraise on the flop meant he had flopped something (either a strong draw or a pair), but with the Jh9h there were several draws he could have.


i wanted to charge his the very most on the turn in case he was on a draw, with an eye to checking behind on the river as i figured him to be weak enough that he wouldnt reraise me on the turn without a monster. so my raise on the turn felt safe in that i could easily fold to a reraise.


as for him betting into me on the river when the 9 showed up that just reeked of a desperation bet with a busted draw. but since there was a small chance he had a 9 all along (which wouldve been consistent with his play of the hand) just calling seemed like the best play for me there.


in fact, he did miss his heart draw and my pair of 7s won the pot.

That's what I thought. I thought you could have raised on the river (But that's a lot easier in the calm of 20/20 hindsight!).

A raise on teh river would be disasterous. The busted draw will not call. A BETTER hand will surely call. What hand will you knock out? A weak jack? I'd be sure that a Jack would call. What happens if he re-raises?


I think the call on teh river is the exact play. A lot of the time you'll be shown a higher pair than 7's but you'll see the busted draw enough to call.

Yes, your right. I mispoke. I meant that he was better.