Informal poll

[eastbay]

Do you get called an idiot daily in your SnGs? I know I am not an idiot because of my return, so it doesn't affect me - joke's on them.

But I'm curious if most winning players get called idiots as often as I do. I think it may be that most simply don't understand how hand values change in the endgame when blinds are high.

Often I have people telling me they have a note on me : "clown", "idiot", "moron", "fish", etc. Do you get this a lot?

eastbay

[lorinda]

I get it a little, usually if I defend to a mini-raise with some utter garbage in level one and connect, or at the end of the tourney where I call with 93s in the BB and put someone's AJo out.

I'd say once in 15-20 SNGs.

Lori

[zephyr]

I'd say a fair amount, especially headup on the end. If I make it to the money in say three out of my four games then I'll often just take on the strategy of pushing and calling with any two.

The comments will always be one of two extremes. "Idiot", "Fish", "Moron" or, "You play well", "Are you a 2+2'er?".

Only my opinion,

Zephyr

[poboy]

I get called that among other things. One from last night still a little fresh in my memory. I'm dealt TT in MP I call, it is raised 3BB's which I call along w/ 3 others. Flop comes K high. It's checked to the button who bets T20 into an almost T500 pot, everyone folds including the pf raiser except me I call getting almost 25:1. The turn is a blank and I call another T20 bet from the button. the river is checked down and he shows AK. The pf raiser starts lambasting me for having the 3rd best hand and being a fish, even after I explained to him why I called and why he should have as well. He ended up busting out next and I took 2cd.

[tomato head]

I get called an idiot just about every day. Its just too easy to call someone whatever you want when you dont have to look them in the face.

By far the most common is "Moron".

Best thing to do is agree and tell them to put in their notes. If your lucky, they will actually think you are an idiot.

[eastbay]

[ QUOTE ]
I get it a little, usually if I defend to a mini-raise with some utter garbage in level one and connect, or at the end of the tourney where I call with 93s in the BB and put someone's AJo out.

I'd say once in 15-20 SNGs.

Lori

[/ QUOTE ]

Seems like I get it more than that. Maybe 1 in 6 or 8.

My style late often turns hyperaggressive if I smell weakness (tight calling standards). So if I blind someone down to a couple BB, then put him in with J8s and he happens to have a caught an A and I suckout, this is the kind of thing which will set people off. He thinks he showed great discipline and waited patiently to make the "smart play" by defending with a strong hand. This simply doesn't fly in the PP structure.

eastbay

[lorinda]

I tend to play Stars or UB where you make these plays a little less often, that probably accounts for the difference.

Lori

[Unarmed]

I get called everything in the book, but mostly because I make stupid comments early on like "I'm good at poker". It irritates the hell out of people and I find my huge bets get called down more frequently in the early stages by people who 1) hate me or 2) think I'm a fish.

When it gets 4 handed I'll start entering intelligent poker related messages to attempt to reverse my table image and increase my steal success rate.

I really have no empirical evidence to suggest this works, but its hilarious so I keep chatting. The more you get these guys to type something the better read you can get on them...

[pshreck]

Here is the main situation where I get called an idiot.

I am big stack, blinds are massive. Small stack pushes 900 chips. I look down at 56 and call the extra 500 chips on top of the 400 bb. Bust his A 9 etc etc.... this I always get called an idiot for. Happens quite often, making calls purely based on pot odds and 'sucking out' when you are like a 45/55 dog.

[Irieguy]

I would say that >50% of the SNGs in which I finish 5th or higher, there's some angry chat directed towards me. Here are the 10 most common comments:

1. Moron
2. Idiot
3. Keep it up, moron
4. Keep it up, idiot
5. Do you just push every hand, idiot?
6. You're an idiot, moron
7. You're a complete moron
8. Takes a lot of skill to play like that, idiot.
9. That's BS
10. You suck

Irieguy

[willie24]

of course, every day.

[alittle]

[ QUOTE ]
Here is the main situation where I get called an idiot.

I am big stack, blinds are massive. Small stack pushes 900 chips. I look down at 56 and call the extra 500 chips on top of the 400 bb. Bust his A 9 etc etc.... this I always get called an idiot for. Happens quite often, making calls purely based on pot odds and 'sucking out' when you are like a 45/55 dog.

[/ QUOTE ]

The last time for me, similar stack situation, I had AhQh and called an all-in KK. Caught both an A and the flush, and was called an "idiot chaser".

Wanted to reply that I love to chase idiots, but held my tongue.

[willie24]

this is interesting. i suspect that this strategy would work better in ring games...where you want a lot of action, but i enjoyed reading your take on this.

personally, i would probably get too sick of myself to do this, but i admire you for having the self-control to do it.

[SmileyEH]

Absolutely, and I love it every time.

-SmileyEH

[Bremen]

To give you an idea how often I get called an idiot, according to PT 32o is profitable for me!!! (based on 123 hands)

Last night one of the other players kept making comments about all-in working every time but once. When I finally got called and busted out I actually had the better hand pf, but he was all giddy because my strategy had finally been defeated "as it inevitably would". Did he not notice I was a 2-1 favorite preflop? lol

[swede123]

Several days ago it was down between three people in an SNG. One guy raised every time it got to him regardless of his hand, and since me and the third guy were more selective we slowly eroded his chip lead and finally eliminated him. As he left the table he said "you two are the weakest players ever" and "I couldn't play that bad on my worst day." Yay!

Cheers,

Swede

[Bigwig]

All the time! It's annoying, but amusing.

Two nights ago, I was in a $30 at Stars, 5 handed, 50/100, and in the BB with 62o. Two limpers + SB. I check, and the flop is Td6d3c. The SB checks. I haven't bluffed or semi-bluffed much at all this game, so I lead out a bet of 400. MP folds, Button calls, SB folds.

Now, button called a pot sized bet (400) with only 1200 chips remaining. I was very puzzled by this call. It screamed flush draw to me, but maybe he had a T weak kicker floating around.

Well, the turn brought another 6, and I put him all in. He called with JTo, lost, and proceeded to berate me for being a lucky idiot. I told him he should have pushed on the flop, that the mistake was all his.

It seems you get called an idiot a lot when you get caught bluffing or semi-bluffing, as if it's not part of the game.

Then, IN THE VERY NEXT SNG I'M UP AGAINST THE SAME GUY THREE HANDED.

The blinds are 200/400 (50ante) at this point, and the villain has around 3500.

I'm in the SB (t5500) with JTs. I raise it up to like 1300, he comes back over the top all-in, and I call. To me, this is automatic. I'm getting better than 2:1 on my money, and he is desperate. He had ATo, unfortunately, but I caught a J, and he was gone.

So he once again lambasted me. Man, was he ticked.

[tallstack]

My most "moron" inducing play is by far when I bet the flop to pick up a side pot when someone is all-in. Often it is worth more than the main pot and I will do it with anything if I think the other live player will fold. When I end up losing to the small stack I always get a comment.

My other personal favorite is when someone is not defending their blinds often and says "keep that up (insert favorite word here) and I'll take you down". I'm pretty much guaranteed to raise their blind with anything next time around.

That said, I am not getting called a moron as often as some others in this thread. I think I have to take a look at whether I have a leak somewhere.

Dave S

[rci97]

First off, THANK YOU to everyone who regularly posts on this site. I just discovered this site about 2 months ago. Since that time, I have gone from a barely winning player to the point that I am about to move up from PP's lowest levels (I am a mere $5 player at this point) because I am so consistently in the money. I rarely used to be called an idiot or a moron, but as my play has gotten better (thanks to this site), it is now a somewhat regular occurrence. The latest was this morning, when, down to 3 players, I called an all in from the shortstack from the BB. I was already in for $400, he went all in with his last $1050. I called with 78s. He called me a moron after beating his AKo.

[Texas Pete]

I keep player chat off, so I have no idea what people call me.

[eastbay]

[ QUOTE ]
I would say that >50% of the SNGs in which I finish 5th or higher, there's some angry chat directed towards me. Here are the 10 most common comments:

1. Moron
2. Idiot
3. Keep it up, moron
4. Keep it up, idiot
5. Do you just push every hand, idiot?
6. You're an idiot, moron
7. You're a complete moron
8. Takes a lot of skill to play like that, idiot.
9. That's BS
10. You suck

Irieguy

[/ QUOTE ]

lol... yeah, we play in the same crowd.

eastbay

[eastbay]

[ QUOTE ]

Last night one of the other players kept making comments about all-in working every time but once. When I finally got called and busted out I actually had the better hand pf, but he was all giddy because my strategy had finally been defeated "as it inevitably would". Did he not notice I was a 2-1 favorite preflop? lol

[/ QUOTE ]

lol.

One of my recent faves: Blinds about 15/30, I get dealt AA, my first playable hand, and raise it to 100, get two callers. Flop is K high, somebody bets ~200, and I push in ~900. Guy calls with KTo. A T comes off, and I'm out. In the chat box:

"Idiot. Loose players always get sent packing."

eastbay

[Gramps]

My favorite is when you push something like T8s in a high blind bubble situation, get called by A3o, and get chastised for sucking out/pushing crap...after you win the virtual coinflip. Or any time you win a 2:3 or 3:5 and your opponent whines incessently (without mentioning the specific odds) about the utter unfairness of the whole matter, and what a fish you are for pushing semi-crap when the blinds are about to eat up your fold equity.

When I do catch flack from a player on hands like that, they're not a likely candidate for the "table selection - avoid list."

[Bigwig]

[ QUOTE ]
"Idiot. Loose players always get sent packing."

eastbay

[/ QUOTE ]

Ha!

I used to defend myself. Back when I played at Golden Palace or the $10's on Stars, I was pullin in like a 40% ROI. Guys would give crap like that, and I'd say "If I stink so bad, why do I have a 40% ROI?"

Then they'd say, "What's ROI, idiot?"

[willie24]

[ QUOTE ]
Here are the 10 most common comments:

1. Moron
2. Idiot
3. Keep it up, moron
4. Keep it up, idiot
5. Do you just push every hand, idiot?
6. You're an idiot, moron
7. You're a complete moron
8. Takes a lot of skill to play like that, idiot.
9. That's BS
10. You suck


[/ QUOTE ]

very good list!

some that i would add...
-douche (usually spelled deuche)
-keep doing that and u will get burned, deuche (sic)
-go play a 10 cent tourney
-(after "suckout") hahahahhahaahaha OMG. the luck. thats (insert site name here) for you.
-u r gay

[dogsballs]

"dogsballs wins pot with a flush, King high
DRAWINOUT [observer]: glad had no more $ dogsballs your garbage"

[stupidsucker]

I get called an idiot every day. I have lots of people that say they have notes on me as a moron.

Sometimes I argue back a little. I know I shouldnt, but I dont like losing FE because some idiot tells the rest of the table I am an idiot.

Which brings me to the questions. Just how should we handle it? Does it affect FE enough to even think about it when someone mentions it at a table before it is blind stealing time?

[AleoMagus]

At $11-$33, I get berated all the time.

My favorite ever was one time on the bubble when I opened from the SB with A4o. I am big stack and BB had only about 5xBB, so I put him all-in.

He calls and flips over KK. I hit my A and bust him.

He writes:

"A4.lol. That's garbage. GARBAGE. I wouldn't even CALL with A4 and this idiot is PUSHING with it."

I guess in this guy's world, it takes more of a hand to push than it does to call an all-in.

Regards
Brad S

[Jman28]

Yeah. Usually they laugh at me (with an 'lol' or 'haha' of course.. I can't hear them).

I've gotten, 'You're not gonna last long', 'keep playing like that, idiot', and a few heads up challenges. I love it.

[Benholio]

"You keep doing that, I'm going to call you"
"Idiot only knows how to go allin, learn to play poker"
"You know, that works everytime but once!"

I love it when they get angry from the aggressive play. It almost always breaks down the same way:

-steal 3 or 4 times, building up a good stack
-fish gets angry and vows to call you next time
-push next time, he folds anyway
-push again, he calls you with absolute crap.. that will teach you to go all-in so much!!!

[Irieguy]

My friend and I were discussing this just the other day. I noticed that late in a SNG, many players are reluctant to push because they don't want to risk going broke with a marginal hand. But when you push, they see Q-8s as a nice hand with which to double through.

It's the exact opposite of what is correct. They subscribe to the "reverse gap concept." Your example is another illustration of it.

Irieguy

[viennagreen]

this has been a question of mine as well.

i try not to argue back, but sometimes (if, for example, i have been running bad) i catch myself making a retort or two.

i think that teaching people pot odds and a hyper-aggressive end-game is generally -EV... i'd rather have people think that i was an idiot than for them to play correctly.

it definitely affects folding equity though... people get pissed because you're running over the table and then they want to bust you.

[viennagreen]

oh---

i think the best way to handle it is to say you're drunk.

[Jason Strasser]

***** Hand History for Game 1172926935 *****
200/400 TOURNEYTEXASHTGAMETABLE (NL) (TOURNAMENT 7155997) - SAT NOV 13 04:56:38 EST 2004
Table Table 14452 (Real Money) -- Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 4
Seat 1: ironman60 (2130)
Seat 5: rosieace (1050)
Seat 9: VTranMan27 (4365)
Seat 10: strassa2 (2455)
strassa2 posts small blind (100)
ironman60 posts big blind (200)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to strassa2 [ 5h, 7s ]
rosieace folds.
VTranMan27 folds.
strassa2 raises (2355) to 2455
strassa2 is all-In.
ironman60 calls (1930)
ironman60 is all-In.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 2h, 3c, Ks ]
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 8s ]
** Dealing River ** : [ 7c ]
Creating Main Pot with $4260 with ironman60
Creating Side Pot 1 with $325 with strassa2
** Summary **
Main Pot: 4260 | Side Pot 1: 325
Board: [ 2h 3c Ks 8s 7c ]
ironman60 balance 0, lost 2130 [ Th Ah ] [ high card ace -- Ah,Ks,Th,8s,7c ]
rosieace balance 1050, didn't bet (folded)
VTranMan27 balance 4365, didn't bet (folded)
strassa2 balance 4585, bet 2455, collected 4585, net +2130 [ 5h 7s ] [ a pair of sevens -- Ks,8s,7s,7c,5h ]



How could you not call me an idiot??? /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

-Jason

[stupidsucker]

Is this really a proper push? I think I would let this one go at the 30s. However, I wouldnt be calling with ATs if I was the BB either. At the 200s I guess you have a little more FE. Last night I pushed with 93s from the SB with high blinds 5handed. BB with a medium stack (same as me) calls with 9jo. Sometimes it feels like they can see your cards when they call with JUNK that has you dominated.

[Jason Strasser]

It was borderline. There was one stack really low, and I expected this opponent to fold an ATs type hand.

-Jason

[partygirluk]

One particularly amusing incident happened against Jonesy22 on Pokerstars. I managed to get all in against him early on a board of 55T7 When I had KT and he had JT. River is T so he sucks out.

Having seen what garbage he will call with I push with KQ on a Qxx flop. He folds and says

"Yeah yeah I know you had nothing"
"So why didn't you call?"
"Because all I had was Ace high"
"Ace high beats nothing"
"Lets go plays $50 heads up. You suck. I'm so gonna outlast you."
"You say I suck, but earlier on I got you all in when you were a massive dog and hit a miracle river"
"I had top pair! I can't wait to bust you."

and so it continued, getting really rather nasty. The guy was a total fish and an idiot to boot.

A few hands later, I raise KTs from the SB. He calls. Flop is

KTT

I figure that he is so wound up that if I push he will call. So I push (5*pot). He goes into the tank and folds, claiming to have had AQ.

I was really annoyed because I wanted to destroy him SO much. I keep thinking that if I had checked he might have tried to show "Two can play that game" and pushed. Or if I let him catch something. Or perhaps I could have wound him up with some chat.

We carried on the banter, and he was taking a verbal kicking, so came out with the old "I have blocked your chat line" which was obvious BS.

He busts out to someone else later (He had A3 on an AJT63 board when his opponent had made it 100 percent obvious throughout he was holding KQ. Obviously I found this very amusing, but he left without comment (as always happens).

2 minutes later I search for him, and find he has started a new SNG. He got all in first hand with KQsooted and busted out! I couldn't resist goading him, not that it should matter, as he had my chat turned off right? No chance. He finds my table and starts coming out with

"Stop following [censored]" etc. crap.

Love it.

[dogsballs]

One from just now. Last hand of sng.

"Dealer: yukon250 has high card Ace
Dealer: dogsballs has two pair, Sixes and Fours
Dealer: Game #856460946: dogsballs wins pot (10950) with two pair, Sixes and fours
dogsballs: gg
yukon250: ur retarded"

[mackthefork]

Thinking back to a turbo last week on stars for this one, I got AK 3 times running and pushed 1200 the first time and picked up an extra 750, I pushed 2nd time and picked up an extra 750 again from about 1900, then 3rd time i pushed 2500 with 300/600 blinds, a guy in MP calls with 66 for 3/4 of his stack and flop is A6X, some wiseguy says 'one time too many' yuck i aint got time to argue, I doubt he saw the irony of his comment.

Regards Mack

[A J Carisse]

Man, I'm worried now /images/graemlins/smile.gif I've never been insulted ever at the table, not that I would care (and I'm far from a newbie - been playing full time for quite a while hehe). In fact that would be great if they thought that /images/graemlins/smile.gif

And I even take up for the "idiots." It bugs the crap out of me when people try to wise up people who make -EV moves. I'll console them by saying stuff like "it worked though" or "he won didn't he."

I dunno what I'd do if and when this stuff happens though. I'd want to cuff them upside the head, but hopefully I'll control those urges and just smile /images/graemlins/smile.gif

A.J.

[A J Carisse]

The first thing you've got to ask yourself is - has he got a point here? No one plays perfectly all the time. If he's right, he's done you a favor.

Regardless though, I'd ask him what he would do in the situation. He might actually tell you, and what we'd be after here is gaining some insight on how the guy plays the game and how he thinks, to use it against him later /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Regardless though, take it all in stride. I'd never avoid someone like that, and there'd be more than a little sarcasm involved (I beat him with superior cards later than I say - did I play that right?)

These are your opponents, your enemies in fact. Who gives a hoot in the end what they think of you? Just take their money /images/graemlins/smile.gif

A.J.

[A J Carisse]

LOL! I want to know though what you were thinking with going all in on the bubble with 75o. The other guy musta been steamed!!! /images/graemlins/mad.gif

A.J.

[Miamipuck]

I was just thinking damn that name calling rarely happens to me. But here is one that just happenend:


***** Hand History for Game 1177720110 *****
300/600 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament 7183996) - Sun Nov 14 13:18:31 EST 2004
Table Quarter Million Qualifier 254538 (Real Money) -- Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 2
Seat 2: Miamipuck (2840)
Seat 3: Nutsetter (5160)
Nutsetter posts small blind (150)
Miamipuck posts big blind (300)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Miamipuck [ 7s, Kd ]
Nutsetter calls (150)
Miamipuck raises (2540) to 2840
Miamipuck is all-In.
Nutsetter calls (2540)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 8d, 2h, Ts ]
** Dealing Turn ** : [ As ]
** Dealing River ** : [ 7h ]
Creating Main Pot with $5680 with Miamipuck
** Summary **
Main Pot: 5680 |
Board: [ 8d 2h Ts As 7h ]
Miamipuck balance 5680, bet 2840, collected 5680, net +2840 [ 7s Kd ] [ a pair of sevens -- As,Kd,Ts,7s,7h ]
Nutsetter balance 2320, lost 2840 [ Kh 9h ] [ high card ace -- As,Kh,Ts,9h,8d ]

Here is the conversation:

Nuttsetter: You lucky xxx F
MP: Thanks
Nuttsetter: That is ridiculous
MP: Stop Crying

Then this hand happened:
***** Hand History for Game 1177722387 *****
Miamipuck: thanks
300/600 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament 7183996) - Sun Nov 14 13:19:23 EST 2004
Table Quarter Million Qualifier 254538 (Real Money) -- Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 2
Seat 2: Miamipuck (5680)
Seat 3: Nutsetter (2320)
Miamipuck posts small blind (150)
Nutsetter posts big blind (300)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Miamipuck [ Qc, As ]
Miamipuck raises (450) to 600
Nutsetter: that is ridiculous
Nutsetter raises (2020) to 2320
Nutsetter is all-In.
Miamipuck: stop crying
Miamipuck calls (1720)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 2c, 2s, Th ]
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 5s ]
** Dealing River ** : [ 4h ]
Creating Main Pot with $4640 with Nutsetter
** Summary **
Main Pot: 4640 |
Board: [ 2c 2s Th 5s 4h ]
Miamipuck balance 8000, bet 2320, collected 4640, net +2320 [ Qc As ] [ a pair of twos with queen kicker -- As,Qc,Th,2c,2sQc(kicker card) ]
Nutsetter balance 0, lost 2320 [ 6d Ac ] [ a pair of twos -- Ac,Th,6d,2c,2s ]


MP: GG
Nutsetter: Fu Querr CS
MP:WWWWAAAAAHHHHH!
MP: Baby
Nutsetter: K-9 vs. K-7
MP: See you in the Tourny
Nutsetter: Idiot
Mp: Whiner
Nutsetter: Moron
Nutsetter: XXXX Sucker
MP: You called the All-in A-Hole
MP: Stupid, You called I bet, You are the fool.
Nutsetter: Yeah in a much better dominant hand
MP: You called do you understand Stupid?
Nutsetter: Yes......... Bad play got rewarded
MP: No bad play got punished
Nutsetter: I had K-9 suited to your K-7 unsuited.
MP: You made the bad play!
MP: Next time hit the little button in the middle that says fold.
Nutsetter: You're an idiot dead money this afternoon... lol
MP: lol I bet you anything I have placed higher than you in it!
MP: Yeah I do not hear you now fool.

That was word for word! LMBFAO

Sorry you can not have your 2 minutes back! Feel free to critique
my play or verbage......... lol

[Miamipuck]

This guy Nutsetter seems to berate everyone. LOL

His name should be NutJob.

[ZeeJustin]

I get called an iidot for the same reasons Strassa does.