Mundane "is this a leak" question

[jon_1van]

Party Poker 1/2 (0.25 ante) Seven Card Stud High (8 handed)

3rd Street: (2 SB) Hero is Seat 5 with 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif<font color="blue">(8 players)</font>
Seat 1: xx xx T/images/graemlins/club.gif
Seat 2: xx xx 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif
Seat 3: xx xx 6/images/graemlins/club.gif
Seat 4: xx xx 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
Hero: 9/images/graemlins/club.gif T/images/graemlins/spade.gif 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif
Seat 6: xx xx A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
Seat 7: xx xx K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
Seat 8: xx xx J/images/graemlins/club.gif

Action: Seat 2 brings it in for $0.5, Seat 3 calls, Seat 4 folds, Hero calls, Seat 6 calls, Seat 7 folds, Seat 8 calls, Seat 1 folds.

4th Street: (4 SB) Hero catches 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
Seat 2: xx xx 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif
Seat 3: xx xx 6/images/graemlins/club.gif A/images/graemlins/heart.gif
Hero: 9/images/graemlins/club.gif T/images/graemlins/spade.gif 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif
Seat 6: xx xx A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif J/images/graemlins/spade.gif
Seat 8: xx xx J/images/graemlins/club.gif 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif

<font color="CC3333">Action: Seat 6 bets</font>, Seat 8 folds, Seat 2 calls, Seat 3 folds, Hero calls.


Was this a bad 4th street call?

I had a rough night last night. Alot of my good hands didn't hold up or good draws didn't come. And while that is not the point...last night I was starting to question some of the things I do. I decided that I might as well put a bunch of the decisions I'm not confident in and ask "was this wrong" please bear with me. So I think I'm going on a leak hunt

[Andy B]

If this is the worst call you ever make, you should be in pretty good shape in this game. The bettor's hand is somewhat dead, and yours is fairly live. It would be better if the other guy hadn't called. Your call closes the action, which is a bonus. I think calling is fine, but be prepared to fold without improvement on fifth street.

[timmer]

I not so hot on the call Youve caught quite weakly although not a total brick. players in these games love to play A's. I like to make note of a players Ace propensity in these games. That is will he and with what will he play an Ace. Some players will play any bare Ace. Others need somthing to go along with it. Some others need two somthings to go along with it.

You are not likely to catch good on the next round. Your perfect card the J/images/graemlins/spade.gif fell in the new bettors hand. the 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif and T/images/graemlins/club.gif are gone. As is the 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif which is calling and may be on /images/graemlins/spade.gif's. I think you need a ten a 9 a good/images/graemlins/spade.gif or a 6 to continue. thats 6 pair or trip cards and really only 2 good spades the 7 and 8 plus the two Black A's that 10 hits vs 27 misses. If you call and do catch you will likely play on. But you might be in pretty bad shape if you do.


the only really good things here are that you may already Have the best hand and you likely will be last to act on the next round.

So this is what I propose.... find out!!

raise <ul type="square"> for information in an attempt to get it heads up set up a semi bluff on 5th perhaps get a free card. To possibly add some extra outs or scare cards to your hit column.
Such as a 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif or other suit or perhaps a J [/list]

Obviously the safe play is the call its slim but safe. the fold likely is -ev here because so many people will open with a board like AJos eventhough it is dead. with or with out a small or lower mid pair. What makes it tricky is that many of these LL payers will limp on 3rd with a big pair then come out swinging on 4th if their hand starts to slip away . I might raise just to straighten them up a bit. put them on notice that I'm a force to be reckond with.

I dont think this is a simple decision the pot is getting sizable but isnt there yet. At 5 SBs to you, Hero, you have the opportunity to shut down the betting on 5th where you will likely be last. you have position. If they both call you will likely be last it will be 4 to 6 BB to you. unless you open pair then you will be first and should open. or prehaps try for the check raise if the 4th St. opener catches Bad. I would be carefull if somehow I end up in the rocking chair.

OK OK no more if dog rabbit senarios...

I guess the main consideration is what kind of opponents are you up against here and how will they react and what will they come in with. Im thinking you can get some valuable information and gain a considerable advantage here by popping it.

Just my few cents

timmer

[Andy B]

By raising, exactly what kind of information are you hoping to gain? Do you really think that Q2 is going to fold for one more bet having already called one?

[timmer]

well , Online one of the things I look for is not always whether if they call but How they call. there are timing tells on line and they are very usefull.

The Q2 may just fold if he thinks he might be heading for danger or will likely have to call two more bets next round.

calling an opening bet and overcalling a raise are two very differnt things. If this opponent is calling with the same hands he is overcalling raises with I would suggest that he is playing very badly. If this is the case hero would want this player to overcall. because this opponent is very likely to make many more monsterious mistakes in the round or rounds to come and his presence is likely to force the original bettor to play more straight forward.

One of the benifits of this raise is how it will effect How the hand will be played fron this point on.

Stud poker is a very dynamic game. events can change course very quickly. and if you can manipulate them towards your favor you have done somthing that may benifit you greatly on this hand and on the hands to came.

timmer

[jayheaps]

i think the bigger mistake was not raising on 3rd street to limit the field and define you hand a bit. this may help you figure out how strong seat 6's hand is when he bets out again.

[jon_1van]

if I raise here I am almost 100% sure that bet is just gonna get called around. I don't think anyone will fold

[timmer]

what do you think the effects will be on 5th as a result of a raise on 4th ?

[eh923]

Raising this is awfully tough. There are 3 non-duplicated cards yet to act that are higher than ANY of our hero's cards. A T is gone, a spade is gone, as are 2 of the primary cards he needs to make good a straight draw.

I like the call of the bring-in, and timmer's "raise 4th" line.

[CJC]

Calling is fine... Especially in those games..

One has to remember in those games... even marginal calls will prove very profitable in the long run....

CJ

[SA125]

You asked about leaks so I think even with the ante and bring-in being very high for the game, these hands are probably break even.

If the A, K or J completes behind you paired up and you both catch bricks on 4th, your mid pair is a dog against a bigger pair without a bigger kicker. That's something to consider before you call 3rd.

On 4th here your spade draw is a long shot and having JJ out hurts your straight draw more than the 6 helps. I don't see anyone folding to your raise and you gaining much from it.

So in a LL game with this structure, I can see the call for the bring-in on 3rd looking to catch or fold on 4th.