Josh Arieh Interview [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

busguy

11-12-2004, 12:54 PM

After how he acted in this year's WSOP, I wouldn't care what he thought, said, or did . . . EVER.

This guy has the self-confidence on a NEWT, and has a such a long way to go to even be registered on the "decent" human being scale, that I would wager that it isn't likely EVER to happen.

If he was talking about what it takes to be a true blue horse's arse . . I probably would read that.

What an Idiot (him not you).

/images/graemlins/frown.gif busguy

Sent

11-12-2004, 01:41 PM

I dont get the lessons thing

-Sent

jedi

11-12-2004, 01:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
They cut the final show from 2 hours to one hour, with their excuse being "there were not enough hands"... I second that

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh?

pipes

11-12-2004, 02:27 PM

I don't have a problem with this guy. They were playing for 5 million dollars, it was a war as he would call it. In the interview, he seemed to imply that his blowup at Harry D. had some startegic elements when he said the rest of the table got the message. They may not have liked it, but I think its within bounds.

To my knowledge he is not a criminal away from the tables such as people like Mike Matusow and Dutch Boyd appear to be.

busguy

11-12-2004, 02:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This guy has the self-confidence on a NEWT,

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah . . . that was supposed to read, OF a newt.

/images/graemlins/blush.gif busguy

jakethebake

11-12-2004, 02:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't have a problem with this guy. They were playing for 5 million dollars, it was a war as he would call it. In the interview, he seemed to imply that his blowup at Harry D. had some startegic elements when he said the rest of the table got the message. They may not have liked it, but I think its within bounds.

To my knowledge he is not a criminal away from the tables such as people like Mike Matusow and Dutch Boyd appear to be.

[/ QUOTE ]
Well as long as you can compare him to even bigger jerks, he's a good guy. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

slickpoppa

11-12-2004, 02:53 PM

Josh: I haven't played much live lately. I think that in this day and age of poker, that it is much more profitable to do good in tournaments, so I don't want to spend my time that I could be using resting, playing in a live game.

I think that DS would strongly disagree with that statement.

pipes

11-12-2004, 03:05 PM

In essence, Josh just views the 9 guys sitting around the table...not as friends, but people trying to take money away from his him and his family.

private joker

11-12-2004, 04:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Josh: I haven't played much live lately. I think that in this day and age of poker, that it is much more profitable to do good in tournaments, so I don't want to spend my time that I could be using resting, playing in a live game.

I think that DS would strongly disagree with that statement.

[/ QUOTE ]

And Phil Ivey would outright contradict it by saying the exact opposite very strongly. Are there two players any more different than Ivey and Arieh?

pipes

11-12-2004, 05:25 PM

Josh won 3.5 million in one tournament. I have no doubt DS has made alot of money over the years. Is it over/under 3.5 million though?

Personally, I think the best cash game players make more than the tourney pros...but its hard to argue with someone who won 3.5 million.

Michael Davis

11-12-2004, 05:28 PM

I think the big difference is that Ivey is right, and even if I didn't know the answer, I would have more reason to believe Ivey is right than Arieh.

-Michael

slickpoppa

11-12-2004, 05:31 PM

I have no problem arguing with someone who made 3.5 million dollars when they make an incorrect statement. If someone won the lottery for 50 million dollars and tried to tell me that the lottery is +EV, I'm pretty confident I could prove them wrong.

pipes

11-12-2004, 05:35 PM

slick, i see where you are trying to go, but it does not seem like a great analogy.

Tournament EV is much more subjective than Lottery EV. In Josh's mind his Tournament EV is way higher than everyone else's...enough so that for him playing tournaments is more lucrative. He has 3.5 million bucks backing his belief.

slickpoppa

11-12-2004, 05:41 PM

He can think what he wants, but he is wrong. His recent successes have probably made him overconfident and blinded him to the reality of the long run.

Prevaricator

11-12-2004, 05:44 PM

3.5M once is not significant for many top pros such as Barry Greenstein or Chip Reese. Maybe if Arieh keeps making the final table at the WSOP, but I seriously doubt it. Barry G has even said before, his 'job' begins at the side games of tournaments; the tournaments themselves are for charity.

pipes

11-12-2004, 05:46 PM

Well, I believe he has also recently made the final table of a WPT event. Is that true? (I really can't check at work...) That was probably another 500,000 or so more reasons why he thinks he's right.

slickpoppa

11-12-2004, 05:54 PM

Yeah, he finished in second or third at the borgata event. I don't doubt that he's a good player. But no player can be so much better than the field in a tournament that a tournament is more +EV than a high stakes cash game. I think one of the biggest misconceptions in poker is that there are some pros who are just so much better than the field that they can almost get to a final table at will. Everyone needs to get lucky. Josh Arieh, for example, was almost eliminated very early on, but then hit a one outer with his AQ v. AK. Then vs. Demetriou he was all-in with only a 45% chance of winning.

jakethebake

11-12-2004, 06:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
He can think what he wants, but he is wrong. His recent successes have probably made him overconfident and blinded him to the reality of the long run.

[/ QUOTE ]
I happen to agree with you on this, slick. But as for the long run, $3.5 million will probably take awhile to run through in entry fees before he gets to -EV.

aaronjacobg

11-12-2004, 06:13 PM

So you would listen to whatever anyone who came in third would say? What are you basing his credibility on, one tournament? No one gets endless credibility but if i were to take one person's word over the others, i go with the seasoned pro, not the 3.5 million dollar man

pipes

11-12-2004, 06:13 PM

I hear ya slick. Just a few thoughts, Josh wins alot of pots by sheer aggressiveness, whcih allows him to gamble more and thus appear luckier than most people. Same thing with Doyle.

Its very possible he has a deep understanding of what it takes to be a success in tourneys..something that even the likes of someone like DS will never comprehend. An intangible, like Joe Montana always leading a comeback. In his mind, he is this type of talent and his results have been backing it up.

pipes

11-12-2004, 06:16 PM

I think many people do not get the gist of what I am saying. I actually agree with the likes of Greenstein and Reese that cash games are more lucrative.

But in Josh's mind, tourneys are greater EV for him. Who can argue against that with his recent performance.

slickpoppa

11-12-2004, 06:17 PM

If anything, the fact that he has 3.5 mil sitting around makes tourneys even less EV than cash games because now he has the bankroll for the high stakes cash games. And may I remind you than EV stands for expectation value. Past results are not a factor in the equation. I know you undertand what I'm saying Jake, but some people may not.

slickpoppa

11-12-2004, 06:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
But in Josh's mind, tourneys are greater EV for him. Who can argue against that with his recent performance.

[/ QUOTE ]

So is anyone who finished below Erin Ness in the WSOP unable to argue with her?

Duke

11-12-2004, 08:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This guy has the self-confidence of a NEWT

[/ QUOTE ]

From IMDB:

Ripley: How long after we're declared overdue can we expect a rescue?
Hicks: Seventeen days.
Hudson: *Seventeen days?* Hey man, I don't wanna rain on your parade, but we're not gonna last seventeen hours! Those things are gonna come in here just like they did before. And they're gonna come in here...
Ripley: Hudson!
Hudson: ...and they're gonna come in here AND THEY'RE GONNA KILL US!
Ripley: HUDSON! This little girl survived longer than that with no weapons and no training.
Ripley: Right?
Hudson: So why don't you put her in charge?

~D

slickpoppa

11-12-2004, 08:50 PM

Game over man. Lights out man.

Duke

11-12-2004, 08:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Game over man.

[/ QUOTE ]

I say we take off and nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

~D

slickpoppa

11-12-2004, 08:53 PM

The mostly come out at night. Mostly.

busguy

11-12-2004, 09:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This guy has the self-confidence of a NEWT

[/ QUOTE ]

From IMDB:

Ripley: How long after we're declared overdue can we expect a rescue?
Hicks: Seventeen days.
Hudson: *Seventeen days?* Hey man, I don't wanna rain on your parade, but we're not gonna last seventeen hours! Those things are gonna come in here just like they did before. And they're gonna come in here...
Ripley: Hudson!
Hudson: ...and they're gonna come in here AND THEY'RE GONNA KILL US!
Ripley: HUDSON! This little girl survived longer than that with no weapons and no training.
Ripley: Right?
Hudson: So why don't you put her in charge?

~D

[/ QUOTE ]

I said "a" NEWT. Not "newt". She had more confidence than this jackass will ever have. You didn't see her runnin around tellin everyone how great she was and that SHE could/should have ended the Alien instead of Ripley.

Thanks

/images/graemlins/grin.gif busguy

Sephus

11-12-2004, 11:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If anything, the fact that he has 3.5 mil sitting around makes tourneys even less EV than cash games because now he has the bankroll for the high stakes cash games. And may I remind you than EV stands for expectation value. Past results are not a factor in the equation. I know you undertand what I'm saying Jake, but some people may not.

[/ QUOTE ]

it doesnt seem like he understands.

ClaytonN

11-12-2004, 11:26 PM

Two things to note:

1) ESPN did make Arieh look much worse than he actually was, according to most everyone who played with him, including Raymer.

2) Chris Ferguson plays primarily tournaments. He knows game theory and EV arguably like no other, and he's choosing tournaments over live games. While for most any average guy a live game will get better EV than tournaments, if it's good enough for Ferguson it can potentially be just as feasible for any other player. (though most prefer cash games, obviously)

slickpoppa

11-13-2004, 01:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Chris Ferguson plays primarily tournaments. He knows game theory and EV arguably like no other, and he's choosing tournaments over live games.

[/ QUOTE ]
Better than Sklansky /images/graemlins/blush.gif That's heresy!

ClaytonN

11-13-2004, 01:19 AM

I said arguably. They are both math freaks. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Edge34

11-13-2004, 01:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]
So you would listen to whatever anyone who came in third would say? What are you basing his credibility on, one tournament? No one gets endless credibility but if i were to take one person's word over the others, i go with the seasoned pro, not the 3.5 million dollar man

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't normally post over here, but there's something needs a little clarification:

Josh owns a WSOP bracelet. Forget what year or event, but its not like he's never been there before.

-Edge

ClaytonN

11-13-2004, 01:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't normally post over here, but there's something needs a little clarification:

Josh owns a WSOP bracelet. Forget what year or event, but its not like he's never been there before.

-Edge

[/ QUOTE ]

Pokerpages says he won a NL HE bracelet in 99, but I was under the impression it was Limit HE. Whatever floats your boat.

West

11-13-2004, 06:01 AM

We're grated cheese man! We're shredded wheat!

Tyler Durden

11-13-2004, 01:59 PM

Josh Arieh won $2.5 million in the WSOP, not $3.5 million.

Trainwreck

11-13-2004, 03:57 PM

Also, he comes in 3rd in a WPT event in season 3, so he has that as well.

His attitude is poor, we can agree on that, and he thinks being a JERK at the table gives him an edge. That is what I think it comes down to... and it probably does against some people.

I read in a book about this as well, it's not a 2+2 so it will go un-named. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

>TW<

Daliman

11-15-2004, 04:11 AM

[ QUOTE ]
The mostly come out at night. Mostly.

[/ QUOTE ]

GOD I hate you for taking this before i could

one of my favorite sayings....

Daliman

11-15-2004, 04:13 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Two things to note:

1) ESPN did make Arieh look much worse than he actually was, according to most everyone who played with him, including Raymer.

2) Chris Ferguson plays primarily tournaments. He knows game theory and EV arguably like no other, and he's choosing tournaments over live games. While for most any average guy a live game will get better EV than tournaments, if it's good enough for Ferguson it can potentially be just as feasible for any other player. (though most prefer cash games, obviously)

[/ QUOTE ]

Ferguson plays only tournaments for the competition aspect, and to my knowledge has NEVER played a casino cash poker game, or at least not for any real money.

jakethebake

11-15-2004, 12:14 PM

I do understand the diff between EV and past winnings. And I realize what I said isn't actually EV. Just making point, even if poorly. That is all. Thank you very much.

jakethebake

11-15-2004, 12:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Josh discusses poker, his image, and what it takes to be a pro. PokerLizard.com (http://www.pokerlizard.com)

[/ QUOTE ]

He's the coolest ever. When is his book coming out? /images/graemlins/grin.gif