Bubble hand

[Irieguy]

5 players left, PP $55. Chip counts are approximate, but very close. Hero is the button, blinds are 200/400:

SB (190)all-in
BB (650)with 400 of it posted
UTG (800)
ChipL (5000)
Hero (3350)

UTG folds, ChipL calls 400. Hero?

Irieguy

[lorinda]

It may depend on what you have /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Edit: Then again it may not, back in a minute /images/graemlins/blush.gif

Lori

[lorinda]

I think it does depend on what you have, I am folding non-suited 4 gappers here, but I don't think I'm folding a great deal more than that.
Probably fold 23o 24o 25o 34 on top of those listed.

Lori

[adanthar]

I do not want to give BB any more chips than I have to (not to mention playing against the chip leader when I have no business being in the hand- if I have 85o, the flop has a 5 in it, and the chip leader starts minbetting into me with a large pot, I've just lost another thousand chips.)

I'm folding almost everything that I would normally fold with the exception of small pairs and bigger suited connectors. I'm also folding weak aces in case he's trapping with a big pair/big ace.

[lorinda]

I give up lol.

I originally saw the call and changed my mind when I missed it, I suck.

Okay, final answer:

I think I'll play a reasonably wide range of hands because it will probably get checked to the river, however nothing like the wide range of hands I originally posted.

Sorry Irieguy for starting off the thread with a pair of delete-worthy posts.

Lori

[Irieguy]

Glad to hear I'm not the only one confused by the hand. I pushed, for very convoluted reasons that I don't want to go into. I'm pretty sure I was wrong, but now I'm not so sure.

I don't like the limp because of how vulnerable I am if the big stack starts min. betting after the flop for all of the dead money. Maybe the answer is fold. I don't know.

And I think the discussion is much more interesting if you don't know what I had.

Irieguy

[morgan180]

I don't think I have any business posting with all of you long-time wise sages /images/graemlins/grin.gif but I really think this is an interesting hand and I'm glad Irie didn't say what he held.

First if the chip leader is going to call wouldn't he want to put the bb all in with a min raise?

That would at least signal to me to fold most of my hands because he's got a shot at knocking the BB out.

With just the call I don't know what he's trying to accomplish.

I would probably fold anything here that I didn't want to play back at the chip leader with. I think calling the min-raises would be too expensive. My thinking would be Its a small-ish pot and I'm well ahead of the other stacks, I can find a better spot (unless i look down and have a big hand).

JMHO

[rachelwxm]

Called me passive, but this is a spot I would muck any cards. I do think stack size is much more important than cards here.

[Killer Mike]

I'd have to fold just about any hand here, too. Even if you have a monster like AA or KK, you're going to be playing in at least a 3-handed pot (there's no way you're getting the BB off his hand and there's already 1 all-in player) and that's not the best situation for big pairs. With two players all-in, there's a chance they'll both get knocked out and then you're in the money. Plus, having a relatively large stack, I wouldn't want to get mixed up with the other big man on campus just yet.

Just my thoughts.

[Klak]

i think id call with almost anything and check it down no matter what i made. your goal here is to eliminate the small stacks so you can make it to the money. this is prolly your best and cheapest opportunity to do that. id only fold here with the crappiest of hands.

[Subby]

Weird bet by the chip leader. How had she been playing up until then? Unless you have a reason to suspect a trap, then I would push. BB will likely fold and leader doesn't want to risk two-thirds of her stack on a marginal hand.

A lot of times big chip leaders just want to see cheap flops...punish that with an aggressive move.

[ChrisV]

Some very weird comments in this thread so far.

Let's first dispense with the idea that the BB is going to fold. UTG can win a folding war with him and force him to go allin twice in the blinds next round. BB is allin for sure.

Your stack is such that you aren't particularly concerned about busting the short stacks. All you want to do is win chips. I'd play a pretty normal game here - move in with good hands and fold everything else. I think you want to be careful about moving in though. Your equity is limited because you have no fold equity, while you may lose your whole stack if the chip leader decides to play ball. Some cautious souls like to play super-passive with good hands on the bubble even when they're chip leader. As an example, I was once playing final 4, the BB was very short stacked, and UTG (chip leader with 4K) limped. I pushed with KK (with 3.5K), BB folded and UTG promptly called, flipped up AKs and cracked me. Chip leader showing up with something like that is going to be a disaster for you, whereas your gain from pushing is always pretty small, so I'd be inclined to be fairly tight in this spot.