A Pair of Postflop 3-bets

[sthief09]

what a pain in the ass this is with no converter... I have no reads on either, as I had just sat down, and having no converter isn't making my read any better.

Party Poker 5/10 (10 handed)

Hero has KQ of :crubdiamonds: UTG+1

Hero open raises, gets cold-called by MP1, and everyone else folds

Flop (5.4 SB, headsup): Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif8 /images/graemlins/club.gif4 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

I bet, he calls

Turn (4.7 BB, headsup): 7 /images/graemlins/club.gif

I bet he calls

River (6.7 BB, headsup): Q /images/graemlins/club.gif

I bet, he raises, I 3-bet...


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Party Poker 5/10 (10 handed)

I open limp UTG+2 with K /images/graemlins/club.gifT /images/graemlins/club.gif... I wasn't sure about this limp but I felt the hand was worth playing but not worth raising so I open limped. weird.

MP3, the CO, and both blinds come along

Flop (5 players, 5 SB): K /images/graemlins/spade.gif6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif5 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

checked to me, I bet and MP3 and the BB call me

Turn (3 players, 4 BB): T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

checked to me, I bet, MP3 calls, BB check-raises, I 3-bet...

my reasoning was that he was in the BB so it was much more possible for him to have
2 pair than a set

[sthief09]

.

[scrub]

Hand 1: I don't like reraising here against someone who isn't a confirmed putz. Sometimes you make an extra bet from a crappy queen. Sometimes you lose another 2 bets to a straight, flush, or weirdplayed boat. I doubt it's a crappy Q twice as often against an unknown player. Especially since you have the Q of crubdiamonds.

Hand 2:

[ QUOTE ]
I open limp UTG+2 with K T ... I wasn't sure about this limp but I felt the hand was worth playing but not worth raising so I open limped. weird.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not weird. Right.

[ QUOTE ]
checked to me, I bet, MP3 calls, BB check-raises, I 3-bet...

my reasoning was that he was in the BB so it was much more possible for him to have
2 pair than a set

[/ QUOTE ]

I like this 3-bet. I'd also 3-bet a loose limper here. There are some players who I would not 3-bet, but they are rare exceptions.

scrub

[asofel]

[ QUOTE ]
I doubt it's a crappy Q twice as often against an unknown player. Especially since you have the Q of crubdiamonds.


[/ QUOTE ]

So simple, and yet I laugh, so long...

[Georgia Peach]

I like both 3bets. If you don't have a read, then it's time to find out early and with a king kicker on the first hand, I think I'd just have to lose to a runner runner flush and find out he's that kind of player.

[MoreWineII]

In hand 1, I think a crummy queen is more likely than a runner runner straight or flush or weird-played boat. If it got capped, I'd probably drop some f-bombs.

Hand 2 is sexy.

[sthief09]

I agree about hand 1. the last thing that went through my mind before clicking is that a frush might not cap me

[Redeye]

[ QUOTE ]
my reasoning was that he was in the BB so it was much more possible for him to have
2 pair than a set

[/ QUOTE ]

On the second hand, I know its a lot more likely that BB has two pair than a set, but given his action do you think this is reasonable? I guess its hard for me to believe that someone would slow play what would have to be a fairly crappy two pair on the flop w/ 5 players, especially with a possible spade draw out. BB waiting for the turn really seems like how these players typically play a set. I'd be really interested to see how the rest of this hand played out and the results. Maybe BB was trying to get tricky with a bigger ace or something.

[Joe Tall]

what a pain in the ass this is with no converter...

Pussy.

Hand 2 is a no brainer, now that's out of the way so onto hand 1.

Let's look at the range of hands your opponent may have. Given he cold called in MP preflop, takes him out of the suited connector range and puts him more in the broadway area, suited broadway sure. Most clowns know to 3-bet AKs online (cold calling only comes from the old men in 20 games) and I'm not one to fear runner runner flushes anyway. Plus, when he has made his 25:whatever-shot, he won't cap a paired board so you have insurance there. However, he could have 88, and you're smoked, BUT those wake up on the turn. Therefore, I feel quite confident that your opponent has QJ, and your hand is good. I'd likely 3-bet.

Peace,
Joe Tall

[MRBAA]

Well, depends on the opponent, but why couldn't he have cold-called with AQ preflop?

I might play the hand just this way against an aggressive opponent, with position.

[sfer]

[ QUOTE ]
I might play the hand just this way against an aggressive opponent, with position.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wouldn't you rather 3-bet to kick the blinds and everyone else out and get heads-up, with position?

[scrub]

More importatntly (in the context of Sthief's problem), how would a consensus opponent play it?

scrub

[Joe Tall]

but why couldn't he have cold-called with AQ preflop?

This could be true but preflop and postflop there'd likely be more action, unless he's uber-passive and fears AA, KK. Most players in these games are married to broadway-connetors preflop (especially dominated suited broadways). I don't know why such players can't learn that QJ, KT, suited or not, etc are rags and should hit the much from strong player preflop raises.

Peace,
Joe Tall

[sublime]

I don't know why such players can't learn that QJ, KT, suited or not, etc are rags and should hit the much from strong player preflop raises.

i dont know either. i hope they never know