Commerce 4-8: 5-handed with ATo UTG

Other than the occasional times when several players are taking dinner/bathroom breaks, I don't play shorthanded games. I haven't managed to figure out the full games yet so I'm not about to get into the trickier shorthanded world.


While on my roadtrip to the Commerce Casino in California, I was involved in a 5-handed 4-8 game for about half an hour in the early morning hours when the graveyard players were beginning to leave and the early birds hadn't yet arrived.


The hand:


I'm dealt AsTh under the gun. This is a hand I always muck in early position in full games but I have at least enough knowledge of shorthanded play to realize it had some value in this 5-handed game. So, I open with a raise hoping to either win the blinds or play against 1 or 2 opponents and win the pot with a flop bet.


A MP calls and so does the big blind. Three players see the flop. Neither of these players are any good. Both seem to be fairly typical low-limit players who play for recreation and don't study the game seriously.


The flop is: Kc,7h,3d


I bet the flop. MP calls. The big blind folds


The turn is: Kc,7h,3d,Tc


Hey, I actually have a hand to showdown now! I bet and the MP raises.


Now what?

Depends on your opponent.


Against a typical low limit player it is a clear fold.


Against a trickier opponent... I think it depends on what you think he thinks of your play. If you think there is a fair chance he puts you on a steal I think it is call.. check/call situation (assuming you miss on the river). If you had missed the turn... and a blank (not giving straight or flush possibilities) arrives it could be a check/raise time.


I really believe short handed play is much more about "mind games" and knowing the opposition than hand holding contests.


Cheers,


Keith

Against someone I was going to play with for a while I would call to see if this was a delayed raise, made hand on turn raise or just a play. At worst, for $16 you get information can serve you pretty well, if you think you'll be at the table with them for a bit. Tough hand for a shorthanded full game with new players.


KJS

i agree with thehawk. typica low limit players are crappy and predictable. good to come out betting on the turn to know where you stand.... you saved yourself a bet.


SWIFTY

you have an easy fold here against clueless players. youre looking at something like KT, T7, or a set. if you want to call and try to spike an A you can, but really since the pot is small it's not quite worth it and you will have to fold on the river when he bets again.


i just cant understand why you dont play higher dynasty. 4-8 is way way below your level of sophistication. you would easily beat 9-18 in LA and probably do well at 15-30 if you have the bankroll for that.

I called the turn raise. Clarkmeister was constantly telling me California players would be raising me with far weaker hands than I would expect. Therefore, I couldn't give them credit for too big a hand. Even though I saw many janky hands getting showndown, I'm not sure it's best for ME to play that way. Clarkmeister is far better at handling these types of situations.


So, I called anyway.


The river is: Kc,7h,3d,Tc,Td


I check. My opponent bets. I check-raise and get called. My hand was good.


My opponent was really ticked off. /images/smile.gif He must have thought I was a local.

I'm working my way up gradually while still playing Stud as well. In Vegas, I've played as high as 8-16 at the Bellagio in addition to the 6-12 game at the Mirage. I haven't played as much Hold'em this month as I've played Stud. As a result, I've gotten into a rut of going back to the 4-8 game. I'll need to break that soon.


I was planning to play 10-20 Stud tonight (which I played at the Commerce) but the game was 3-handed. So, I slummed it at the 5-10 game. I expect to be giving the Mirage 10-20 stud game a good try.


That 4-8 hand was played on the final morning while I was there. There was only one 9-18 game running so I simply took the easy game and protected my winnings for the trip. I wanted the bragging rights of beating Clarkmeister and D.Andrew.