two kings in the big blind

[foldem]

This is my first post on this forum
Party NL 100
Total number of players : 10
Table is playing tight preflop and there has not been much open raising.
Seat 3: villian ( $121.65 )
Seat 8: Hero ( $107.59 )

Hero posts big blind [$2].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ Kd Kc ]
Folded to Villian who open raises to $6.
Hero calls [$4].

Having not reraised preflop my initial plan is to check raise a ragged flop or lead if an A comes and fold to any further action. mistake #1?

The flop comes 5c, 8h, 9d

Hero checks.
Villian bets [$6].

This half pot bet seemed to scream strength to me with such a ragged board.

Hero calls [$6]. mistake #2? I go against my initial plan and do not raise.

** Dealing Turn ** [ 8d ]

Hero checks.
Villian bets [$12].

Another half pot bet by the villian. The board reads: 5c, 8h, 9d , 8d creating a flush draw.

I decide to min raise and make it 24 total. This must be a mistake, I think I need to raise more here?

Villian reraises all in, and I call after convincing myself to go against my initial read of strength.

All comments would be greatly appreciated.

Results in white: <font color="white"> [Villain showed AA to take the pot/color]

[Richie Rich]

Well, it's nearly impossible to lay down KK to his AA (given the level of action in this hand). But if I were to play this hand over, I think a sizable check-raise on the flop would've been in order.

[PoBoy321]

I think that your first mistake was pre-flop. I've had a lot of bad luck with KK so I've developed this theory. When I've got KK, I'm either going to move all-in before the flop, or I'm gonna fold before the flop. You said that there was a lot of tight action before the flop, so the $6 raise should've shown serious strength. I think that a re-raise would've been in order and then fold to an all-in, depending on your read on this particular guy. Believe me, I know how hard it is to fold KK, but if you can, you'll save yourself a lot of money.

[foldem]

That's a good point PoBoy. It certainly would have been easier to lay the kings down before the flop to an all in bet.

I often like to just call a raise with a big pair in the blinds in order to better disguise my holding. But it can definitely back fire. The way the hand palyed out my opponent had very little information on my hand and was still willing to put all his chips in the middle after a turn check raise. This is the main reason I was wondering if a fold was in order.

[meow_meow]

C'mon, you want him to re-raise pre-flop, then muck his KK if his opponent re-raises?
This is just bad advice.

AA over KK happens, end of story.

[Raiser]

Hey PoBoy,

[ QUOTE ]
I've had a lot of bad luck with KK so I've developed this theory. When I've got KK, I'm either going to move all-in before the flop, or I'm gonna fold before the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? Please don't do this. And even if you do it, please don't post it. This is a terrible, terrible thing to do.

Of course your KK will lose sometimes, but if you get stacked at these tables with KK you shouldn't feel bad at all. Most of the time you got your money in with the best of it and that's your goal. Folding KK pre-flop does not achieve this goal in any way whatesoever.

[jtr]

I think that the opponent's preflop opening raise was too small for you to slowplay your KK. If he'd raised a bigger amount, it puts you in a position to check-raise him all-in on the flop, which is what you're looking for with this hand on an ace-free flop. Given the $6 open-raise, you definitely need to play back at him preflop or we risk going to a flop with him easily able to get away from your big overpair, because he has so little money committed.

Yes, so he turned out to have AA and you would have lost anyway, but as other posters have commented, that's life. What do you know about the guy? Can we put him on AA-TT or AK? How about 99 or AQ? Anyway, the first set of hands is enough for an aggressive preflop reraise to be correct.

[TakeMeToTheRiver]

[ QUOTE ]
When I've got KK, I'm either going to move all-in before the flop, or I'm gonna fold before the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow... some of the worst advice I have read in a while. Sometimes your KK is going to go up against AA... and sometimes you will lose with KK... and sometimes you will lose with AA. This hand could have been played better -- and a preflop raise was in order, but our hero was destined to lose a lot.

[foldem]

So the general consensus is that a reraise needs to be made. I tend to agree with this idea having such shallow money. What if the money were much deeper say 100-150BB? Is it worth playing a big pot out of position with your hand clearly defined? Maybe I need to start reraising with more hands so that a reraise doesnt necessarily mean AA or KK? Here is another hand I played kings in the small blind just calling a small raise.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

saw flop|<font color="C00000">saw showdown</font>

Button ($96.3)
<font color="C00000">Hero ($93.25)</font>
<font color="C00000">BB ($97)</font>
UTG ($151.85)
UTG+1 ($85.7)
MP1 ($49.6)
MP2 ($250.05)
MP3 ($93)
CO ($74.4)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="CC3333">MP3 raises to $5</font>, <font color="666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls $4, BB calls $3.

Flop: ($15) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, <font color="CC3333">MP3 bets $15</font>, Hero calls $15, <font color="CC3333">BB raises to $30</font>, MP3 folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises to $88.25 (All-In)</font>, BB calls $58.25.

Turn: ($206.50) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

River: ($206.50) J/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: $206.50
<font color="green">Main Pot: $206.50, between Hero and BB.</font> &gt; <font color="white">Pot won by Hero ($206.50).</font>

Results in white below: <font color="white">
Hero has Kc Kh (three of a kind, kings).
BB has Ad Ks (two pair, aces and kings).
Outcome: Hero wins $206.50. </font>

Comments?