Preflop Cap?

[RamGad]

Just basically an odds question. I was thinking I was getting 6-1 and plenty of scare tactics by capping preflop here. In retrospect, I think I would've been better off getting 9-1 on calling. However, I'd lose scare tactics and pot size. Been playing so much shorthanded that haven't capped on a speculative hand preflop lately. What should my thinking (math equation) be to decide whether to cap preflop? Are 3 people enough to cap? Thanks so much to any advice.

(btw. nevermind my failed cr on river. That was stupid. Also turn play is questionable. I think I could've been wrong on every street here)


Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP with T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button calls, <font color="CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, BB folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero caps</font>, Button calls, SB calls.

Flop: (13 SB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Button raises</font>, SB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (8.50 BB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="CC3333">Button bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (10.50 BB) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, Button checks.

Final Pot: 10.50 BB

[kiddo]

He caught u raising with a hand that is in the lower range of your raising hands. But still you want to cap because...?

If u hit a pair or a good draw on flop u can go to war, but if u not... well... why not fold?

[naphand]

You've been sending txt msgs again today haven't you...tsk tsk /images/graemlins/mad.gif

[naphand]

This is a new concept for me "PF scare tactics". You mean you are representing a hand you do not have? I'm not sure bluffing PF is going to be very effective once you are 3-bet. Short-handed you are rarely going to get odds to justify capping 2-suited hands without high card power, you probably need all 5 opponents in, and a good chance they will hang around past the flop.

Raise JTs for value, yes, to steal, yes, and to vary your PF action to be less predictable. When you get 3-bet here it is far more likely you are either dominated (JT is less easily dominated than a hand like KQ) or against a big A. You won't win this very often by betting an A high flop, more likely just spew chips. It is now very likely you need to hit the flop hard to proceed, and as the dog capping is plain silly.

You are not losing "pot size" by not capping PF, this sounds like the LAGs 2nd-golden rule "I am in the hand so I am going to make it a big one". It is pot-equity you need to be thinking of, pot size only becomes relevant post-flop when you have a hand that you can play for, in that it modifies what you do.

You must 3-bet this flop, with a flush draw and possible straight draws out there, you need to charge them and also get a handle on whether you are behind to a big PP or AJ. Button raising here could be a lot of things, could easily be overcards. Get a grip on the hand by 3-betting. Turn is not a perfect card, but now that it is HU you need worry less about a flush, especially as it is the PF aggressor who is your opponent. Of course, he might have two /images/graemlins/club.gif but there are more hands he would raise the flop with than just 2-suited. Either bet the Turn (after 3-betting the flop) or, given your flop line, check-call and lead the River if no /images/graemlins/club.gif falls.

Shouldn't that be Ram[b]God[/i]? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[RamGad]

Thanks so much Naphand. Light bulbs now going off in my head. I see now that I played this hand backwards and got very lucky to draw to win. Turns out he had KK.

[naphand]

Actually, I got SB and Button mixed up. It was SB who 3-bet you PF and Button called two cold twice. You (and me also it seems) need to notice this, Button looks a tricky character.

SB checks (?) the flop, which is either a monster or he was chip-spewing PF as well (Button being the beneficiary), certainly you bet and 3-bet. Once SB is out you 3-bet Button and lead the Turn, if it is capped you need to consider carefully what you play on with after the Turn, the pot is large by then. From this point on your opponent has position on you and your kicker is not great.