Value bet these rivers? [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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Azhrarn

11-11-2004, 04:35 PM

I admit it. I'm a river wimp. I take the free showdown too much when I should be squeezing out one last value bet. Or so I suspect. Please look at the the following five hands and tell me if I have a value bet on the river.

1. Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, Hero raises, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (14 SB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (7 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero bets, Button calls, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls.

Turn: (10 BB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif (6 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero bets, Button calls, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls.

River: (15 BB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero...

2. Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (8 handed)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG folds, Hero calls, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (3 SB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, SB calls, BB calls.

Turn: (3 BB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks.

River: (3 BB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero...

3. Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif. MP2 posts a blind of $3. CO posts a blind of $3.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 (poster) checks, MP3 folds, CO (poster) checks, Hero raises, SB folds, BB folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO folds.

Flop: (8.33 SB) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
MP1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, MP1 calls, MP2 folds.

Turn: (5.16 BB) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets, MP1 calls.

River: (7.16 BB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero...

4. Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls, Hero raises, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (5.33 SB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
UTG+2 bets, Hero raises, UTG+2 calls.

Turn: (4.66 BB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
UTG+2 checks, Hero bets, UTG+2 calls.

River: (6.66 BB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
UTG+2 checks, Hero...

5. Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is CO with T/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, Hero calls, Button folds, SB raises, BB calls, UTG+2 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero bets, SB calls, BB folds, UTG+2 calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
SB checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero bets, SB calls, UTG+2 calls.

River: (8.50 BB) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
SB checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero...

I'll post what and how I did later. Thanks.

J.R.

11-11-2004, 04:56 PM

1 easy bet (especially with the prospect of multiple calls)

2 yup, a J or A would have led the river I would think, but it might be closer than I think, depending on the opponents

3 checks- not sure what worse hand calls you other than a pocket pair or river T

4 yes (Axs would done something on the turn, and a pair (5 or 6 or pocket pair) is more likely than a 3)

5 easy bet

Koller

11-11-2004, 04:58 PM

1. Yes

2. No

3. Yes

4. Yes

5. Yes

butters

11-11-2004, 05:00 PM

1) Bet
2) I check.
3) Bet
4) Bet
5) Bet (although I think this one is pretty close)

pfkaok

11-11-2004, 06:02 PM

I would say 2 is the only check here... J.R, why would you bet here? You think you'll get called by small PP? With 2 others in there i think its very likely that one of them has either weak A, or weak J.

J.R.

11-11-2004, 06:37 PM

I think an A bets the river after the turn check, so a J is the only hand I think you fear. But as I said in my post, its player dependent, as the bet is built upon an assumption of what an A and a J will do after your turn check. I have been playing in some aggressive games, so depending on your oppoent's aggressiveness a check could be fine. There's also some notion about not having to show you hand, but meh.

Now, you tell me why you like the river bet in hand 3? Actually screw it, you can fold to a raise and while a K is there a lot of the time if they are tight, many would call you down on this board with less than TP. I suck, i'm going back to work.

twankerr

11-11-2004, 07:29 PM

Yah I definately see hand 2 as a check situation. The only hands you are going to get called from are a PP lower than yours.

Azhrarn

11-11-2004, 10:00 PM

Thanks to everyone who responded.

Well, I checked them all, and I won them all. *Hangs head in shame.*

1. For some reason, I was sure that with four players calling the turn, someone had to be slowplaying a jack. The button checked, and I beat pocket nines, pocket fours, pocket twos, and an 85.

2. I beat pocket nines and a Q2o.

3. I beat As4s. Shortly after this hand, I figured out he was a major calling station...

4. My opponent had 7s6s, so I was actually lucky my tens held up.

5. The pf raiser had Q9s. The other guy had Q6s.

These were all from a single day, too (I played around 700 hands that day.) Yep, I've identified a leak...