Do you ever fold this?

[TakeMeToTheRiver]

You are in MP with AQo. You make a standard raise pre-flop and get only the button to call. Your stack is approximately 125xBB and the button has 100xBB.

Flop comes: 5 7 Q (rainbow)

You bet the pot and are cold called.

Turn: Q

You bet half the pot and are cold called.

River: 2

You bet approx. half the pot and are raised all-in (raise ends up being about 2x the size of your bet -- 2/3 of the entire pot).

Would you ever fold this?

(I know the numbers are vague -- it is based on a question I received about a hand played at a live poker room with equally vague information.)

[amoeba]

I'm almost certain I'm beat but I probably call.

villain reaks of 55 or 77.

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm almost certain I'm beat but I probably call.


[/ QUOTE ]

this is exactly what i was thinking. calling is a lot more attractive if villain will cold call KQs-QTs.

[TakeMeToTheRiver]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm almost certain I'm beat but I probably call.


[/ QUOTE ]

this is exactly what i was thinking. calling is a lot more attractive if villain will cold call KQs-QTs.

[/ QUOTE ]

So now you are the villian holding KQs on the button... how do you play it differently?

[schwza]

well, i'd cock-punch myself before i called a raise with KQ.

[TakeMeToTheRiver]

[ QUOTE ]
well, i'd cock-punch myself before i called a raise with KQ.

[/ QUOTE ]

really... you would never play KQs from the button for a raise? what if you knew that the raiser was a LAG that would raise with far less?

Anyway, in the hand above, the "villian" is the one that called me about the hand -- and he was playing KQs from the button... but I got part of it wrong. This was a $1/$2 game. There were two limpers and he actually limped from the button. It was the BB that raised to $7 (a bit small) with AQo and both limpers called -- as did the button. So he didn't really play KQs for a raise -- and he only called the small raise after two others did (not sure about the SB).

The limpers folded away after the flop.

[schwza]

ok, ignoring the pre-flop for now, if i had KQ in that spot i wouldn't play it like your buddy did. if you raise all-in in that spot, what's going to call you? flopped sets and AQ (and flopped sets look more likely given that the pre-flop action was limp-call). AA/KK should not call here (and they are unlikely with limp-call pre-flop action). so even though it's a very pretty looking hand, the river should just be a call.

my line would have been:

pre-flop: limp, fold to BB's raise. okay, assume i accidentally called the raise.

flop: raise. if reraised, fold. if other guy calls and checks the turn, i plan on checking behind.

turn: ok, i called the flop. i am way behind or way ahead. unless other guy has an unlikely straight draw, he has 3 or fewer outs. or i do. i like calling. weaker hands won't call the raise and bigger hands will reraise.

river: i would just call. now that villain is a limper instead of a preflop raiser it's more likely that he has QT/QJ and will pay off, but if you get called you're probably going to be looking at 55 or 77.

[TakeMeToTheRiver]

I think you got the two players confused -- but I get your drift. What actually happened was that my friend was the KQs on the button and the player that went all-in on the river... Facing the all-in raise, the BB with AQo went in the tank and then folded face up. I was called because the "friend" was shocked at (and happy with) the fold. He put the guy on a big pair and not a Q -- not sure why.

I consider my friend (villian in the original story) to be a tight player -- at least compared to the players in the card room we frequent (where there is a lot of limping and a decent amount of calling of pre-flop raises). I guess you would not consider him very tight if he called the small pre-flop raise with KQs even with position.

He tends to be too passive for my tastes as well -- but since he looks like he could be bullied, someone might keep betting into him here without a Q (or a boat).

[schwza]

ahh yes, i was still confused on the pre-flop action. i think i get it now.

[ QUOTE ]
but since he looks like he could be bullied, someone might keep betting into him here without a Q (or a boat).

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, i'd say that if hero just calls the river there's a very strong chance he'll win the hand. for the push to be right he needs to get called by a weaker hand, and that's what i think is unlikely. or to fold out a bigger hand, which apparently is possible.

[greg nice]

your friend is lucky he was up against a thinking player. a fold isnt all that bad given the mind boggling way villian played this hand.

the other 75% of the monkeys at B&M tables will call him here. he played horribly and got lucky the other guy was good. go figure that one

[TakeMeToTheRiver]

[ QUOTE ]
your friend is lucky he was up against a thinking player. a fold isnt all that bad given the mind boggling way villian played this hand.

the other 75% of the monkeys at B&M tables will call him here. he played horribly and got lucky the other guy was good. go figure that one

[/ QUOTE ]

You are absolutely right... and my friend/villian recognized that he was extraordinarily lucky... after the hand was folded face up, there was apparently a lot of discussion about whether how great or how terrible the fold was... I was called after the night was over. My guess is that villian/friend needed someone to release the information about his hand to before he imploded.