Still getting destroyed at micro limits

[Radio]

I posted before about this and its still happening. Iv read internet texas holdem and WLLH by lee jones and i try to play exaclty like it says in the books. Tight preflop following the starting hand charts in internet holdem, play good hands fast and aggresivly and only slow play with top hands. And when i do win a pot i do feel that im out playing the opposition and i tend to win a big pot. But i dont win a pot often enough to keep me winning. Theirs always some idiot winning with 3 of kind 2s or hitting a mirical card last min. Most of the time they have no buisness even being in the hand but yet they win. I mean im playing in .25/.50 games where 65% of the players are seeing the flop and 40% calling to the river. I shoud be destroying these guys. But its not happening theirs just too many guys going all the way. The games just seem to loose for the tactics in the books to work?

My stats are as follows :

No of games won 3% No of flops seen 26%
showdowns won 54% win% of flops seen 11%

My actions:
fold 55% bet 4%
check 20% raise 1%
call 17% re-raise 0%

Where I fold:
pre-flop 73% River 1%
flop 12% no Fold 5%
Turn 5%

Over that last 11 hours of play iv droped $17, my win rate is -$1.61 per hour and getting worse.
at this rate my bankroll will fail in a few days.

[Fiddler]

Stats only tell you part of the story. Come to the micro-forum and start posting hands if you aren't doing it already.

[SheridanCat]

You've lost only 34 big bets. That's nothing. If your bankroll can't handle a downswing like this, play lower or prepare to be busted.

You don't mention what you're playing, but playing 26% of your hands seems a little high. Of course, the sample size is trivial.

Regards,

T

[hustalasta]

What site are you playing on? From the sounds of it I agree with the other poster that you should step down a level until you feel more comfortable with your bankroll.

One thing I see from your stats is that you only raise 1% of the time. Not sure how that number is derived but pre-flop alone should be well above 5%. If you dont own pokertracker download the trial version, that should be your first goal... get enough in your bankroll to purchase pokertracker. This will give you more meaningful stats, plus stats on your opponents.

Your win % of flops seen is also low, I see about 25% of the flops and win about 25%ish of those. You could just be on a cold streak or you could be folding too often. Not enough information to go on at present.

[CT11]

[ QUOTE ]
You've lost only 34 big bets. That's nothing. If your bankroll can't handle a downswing like this, play lower or prepare to be busted.

You don't mention what you're playing, but playing 26% of your hands seems a little high. Of course, the sample size is trivial.

Regards,

T

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that 34bb is not much and I've lost that in an hour. But 26% of flops seen is either just right or a little too low depending on your level. A VP$IP of 26% would be bad but flops seen would count the big blind where you can check through. That adds roughly 10%.

~CT

[Clemtown53]

[ QUOTE ]
Tight preflop following the starting hand charts in internet holdem, play good hands fast and aggresivly .....

... Most of the time they have no buisness even being in the hand but yet they win. I mean im playing in .25/.50 games where 65% of the players are seeing the flop and 40% calling to the river. I shoud be destroying these guys.

My stats are as follows :

No of games won 3% No of flops seen 26%
showdowns won 54% win% of flops seen 11%

My actions:
fold 55% bet 4%
check 20% raise 1%
call 17% re-raise 0%



[/ QUOTE ]

Based on the 4% bet, 1% raise and 0% reraise it appears that you aren't playing very agressively at all.

When you have a hand make em pay to draw. The time to find out how strong your hand is vs the table is before the turn, then it becomes clearer what you are up against. Raise your strong hands after the flop, reraise if necessary, occasionally you will be outdrawn but when your stong hands hold up they are paid nicely.

Your stats look like you are just along for the ride, hoping and praying your strong hands hold up against everyone elses and never making them think you are in a position of strength at all.

Jam em', a couple of raises after the flop is equivalent to calling down to the river for a bet each. If you are holding AQo and you have TPTK make sure the table knows if they are gonna try and make that gutshot straight or runner runner flush, they are gonna have to pay. The times they do make it are more than paid off by the numerous times they don't. The big pots with people on draws don't even include those who are playing middle pairs, bottom pair, TP crap kicker etc..whose draws hit so little that their money is just icing on the cake.

I do know how you feel. Before I found this site and reviewd my little stat box on UB, my raise and reraise columns were rarely anything but 0 and never double digit. I would always look at my flops seen% and see a nice low 20s number and say, "see, playing good hole cards, thats damn good poker". Playing tight preflop is less than half the battle though.

Good luck and keep at it.... /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[SheridanCat]

[ QUOTE ]

I agree that 34bb is not much and I've lost that in an hour. But 26% of flops seen is either just right or a little too low depending on your level. A VP$IP of 26% would be bad but flops seen would count the big blind where you can check through. That adds roughly 10%.


[/ QUOTE ]

Right, I agree. I was thinking the VP$IP was 26%.

Regards,

T

[Fitz]

I agree with the others who have said you need to raise more. In the kind of games you are describing, the worst thing you can do is get timid with hands like top pair top kicker and the like. You need to quit thinking about the suckouts and make them pay for drawing to their garbage.

Bankroll is probably the most important part of the game. Without sufficent bankroll; we are out of the game. The standard bankroll is 300 big bets; it can be less than this if you are willing and able to add money if needed. I have over 500,000 hands in my records, and I've seen 3 or 4 dips of over 200 big bets. You will see unbeliveable runs both good and bad. The secret it to realize you are not the second coming of Johnny Chan when the good runs come, and you must also scrutinize you game for leaks when the bad runs come. You have to avoid the tendency to write it off to bad luck or suck outs. Every time I've run bad for a prolonged time, I've found leaks in my game that were making a bad situation worse.

In the texture of games you are describing, you have to look to play hands that play well multi-way and which have a chance to make the nuts. Suited connectors, Axs, small pairs looking to flop sets. These can make you a lot of money, but you have to play them well. Most of the time, you are going to dump them when the flop misses you. When the flop hits you, you can really do some damage with these hands.

Post some hands for critique, and remember, anything can happen in the short term. Constantly look to improve your game and build your bankroll. If you do these things, you will be fine in the long run.

I would suggest investing in HPFAP and Theory of Poker; these are the two best books available as far as I'm concerned.

Good luck,

Fitz

[Radio]

Thing is im playing by the starting hand charts in internet texas holdem if it tells me to raise i raise if it tells me to call i call. And when i make a hand on the flop i play it hard and aggresivly. So i dont see how im not raising enough im raising by the book! I maybe need to play a lot more before i have good stats that reflect how im playing. I have the trial version iof poker tracker is that any good to me?

[hustalasta]

I have the trial version iof poker tracker is that any good to me?

yes, start importing your hand histories into pokertracker and then post some of the hands for review.

[maryfield48]

[ QUOTE ]
I have the trial version iof poker tracker is that any good to me?

yes, start importing your hand histories into pokertracker and then post some of the hands for review.

[/ QUOTE ]

But do it quickly! Or take your time and do it after November 20th, when bison's converter will presumably return from vacation.

[degenerategambler]

You need to let everyone else know what books yoa are following to a 'T'. That way you can all play by the same rigid set of rules. J/K. Be creative. Books arent commandments esp at low limits.