5 max games

I've a few question regarding 5-max tables online.


What would be a reasonable standard deviation for a solid player (given about 120 hands an hour)?


What would be the max hourly rate (for a good player, reasonable game selection, given Paradises rake)?


Is the rake beatable at all for a reasonable/good player without game selection? (so just sitting down in any available 5 max game).


I've some thoughts and stats about it myself (but not enough sample size), but would like to hear some thoughts about it.


Thanks


Regards

Just a question what is the rake at pp, if someone wouldn't mind filling me in, thanks.

You can go to www.paradise.com (http://www.paradise.com) and look under "real money".


For the $3/6 5 max games, the rake is $1 when the pot reaches $20 and an additional $1 when the pot reaches $40 (so max rake $2)


Regards

I've played 25,000 hands at this level and am making about 2 BB per hour. I am by no means a veteren player and consider myself.


In the last 3 months I've had 2 nightmare days losing 70 BB's in 800 hands.


Nightmare meaning hands like this (actually happened TWICE)


KK - I raise, 3 people see the flop, flop is


854 - 3 - 2 I lose.


Back to your question about deviation. My winning days average 0.062 BB's PER HAND, my losing days average 0.055 BB's PER HAND.


Does this help?

Yes..thanks. Do you also have calculated your standard deviation (I cant calculate your standard deviation out of the numbers you gave)?


But anyways, my sample size is still incredibly small (64 hours of 5 max 3/6), but my standard deviation seems on the high side (19BB/hour). I dont know if this is because I've running extremely well over those hours (4,35BB/hour) or that my game is too loose, or that it is a normal indication for standard deviation for 5 players.


Also the rake I've paid in those 64 hours is $1272 (3/6 games). I was amazed by that number. It means you have to make about $20 dollars an hour (without rake) to break even! So, that's why I asked: Is the 3/6 5 max beatable without good game selection? It seems to me, to beat the rake, game selection is one of the most essential things to be a winning shorthanded player.


Again, thanks for the response.


Regards

I break even at 3/6, do very well at 2/4 and 5/10.


Don't know what it is with 3/6 though. I'm wondering if 3/6 has better players then 5/10 (which is over my bankroll but beatable).


After 15,000 hands I setteled down to actually slightly less then 2BB per hour. I win 3 out of 5 days but the losing streaks are ugly, sharp and violent and I spend the next week getting back to where I was.


5max tables are beatable - no doubt about it. Way to many loose players. I play 18% of the hands - meaning any hand I put actually put extra $$ into.

The rake is ridiculous, paradise could easily lower it and still make buckets of money at the shorthanded tables. I have complained to them that I won't play the shorthanded games until they lower the rake and this was a long time ago. I wish everyone else would follow suit, so that you actually colud show some kind of signifigant profit.

i beat the 1/2 game for 20$ an hour.


i will not stop playing so someone like you a marginal at best can get in on all of my profits. stick to the ring and know whats good for you!

There aint no way in hell you beat a 1/2 5-max game for 20 bucks an hour. You might for 400 hands, or even 800 hands but there aint no way its your hourly win rate. Even Abdul couldnt beat that game for 20 bucks an hour, not even close.

i have played 23 hours for a net profit of $464... you do the math.

...and 230 hours wont be very conclusive!maybe after 1000 hours you can make asumptions on your hourly win rate.

230 hours online would be enough but 23 is not. Online poker is way faster than live poker. Much more hands are played online so you dont have to play that long to know where you stand. Number of hands played is more important than the number of hours played.

But your deviation is going to be much higher in a short-handed game than in a full ring game.


You need at least 60000 hands played to even start to get a accurate win rate for short-handed poker. Considering online short-handed averages about 100 hand per hour, then 600 hours of online play would do it. Even at that, your deviation could still be huge.

I've done that in 23 hour spans, That's only 2300 hands. I've hit $600 in 2300 hands. However, the bear will bite you sooner or later.


Check back after 23,000 hands.


I would not even begin to see how my game is going untill about 15,000 hands, then you get a general idea.