Brick and Mortar Casino Etiquette

[PhatPots]

I have an etiquette questions for those of you who play in Brick and Mortar casinos. Recently I was playing at casinorama and I was playing with a player who would only show one card when there was a showdown. A few people at the table were arguing that he had to show both cards to win the pot. Others were saying that he only had to show one card (What he needed to win the pot). The dealer didn't really know, and the Pit boss was being called over, then the player said that he would show both hole cards even though he didn't have to, before the pit boss could settle the dispute. I always understood that, when there was a showdown, you have to show both cards.

I was talking to a few friends about this and some where saying you only need to show what you need to win the hand. Does anyone have any expertise in this area?

Only showing one card makes players more difficult to profile. In a home game, one of my friends recently started doing this.

[Seether]

Both cards must be shown to be awarded the pot at all casinos I have played at.

[Evan]

[ QUOTE ]
casinorama

[/ QUOTE ]
This might be the funniest name I've ever seen for a casino. Where is it?

btw, you gotta show both cards to win a pot.

[AAeyes]

Spent two years working a poker floor...

Rules can vary between different casinos, but I have never come across one that didn't require a player to open their entire hand in order to be awarded a pot. I have seen rules that allow a verbal declaration of "playing the board" to stand for a split pot without showing your hand, but that is not everywhere and is a risky proposition anyway since every player at the table will cry bloody murder that your hand is dead. At no casino have I ever seen one open card sufficient to be awarded a pot.

Best Regards

AAeyes

[magiluke]

The general rules that I understand in a casino (I've never encountered them, but they exist) are that any player has the right to request to see a hand that goes to the showdown (poorly worded, but I think you get the clue). As an example: If we go to showdown, and I show the nut hand, when you go to muck your cards, I am entitled to see them if I want (a poor example too. I'm just sub-par (does it even have a hyphen?) today). Anyway, there you go...

[Cosimo]

Magiluke refers to the "let me see that hand" rule, which isn't exactly what we're talking about here. LMSTH is a tool that allows players to police themselves wrt collusion or other foul play. It is not intended to be used casually, because any time you say LMSTH you are implicitly accusing that player of cheating.

The rules of poker at every casino I've been to are that it takes two cards to win a pot. Refusing to show your entire hand is angle shooting, because although you should not be awarded the pot unless you show both cards, many people won't make enough of a fuss to force the issue.

Summary: He has to show his hand. If he doesn't want to, he must forfeit the pot. But asking to see his hand when he folds is bad etiquette.

[Big Country]

From Robert's Rules of Poker (http://www.homepokertourney.com/rules_roberts.htm#THE%20SHOWDOWN) :

[ QUOTE ]
THE SHOWDOWN
1. A player must show all cards in the hand face-up on the table to win any part of the pot.



[/ QUOTE ]

[bernie]

In our room you have to show both. It speeds up the game and avoids the 1/2 hour conversation/confusion that just showing one card creates.

I hate when im sitting there while players are testing this. Just show the damn cards so we can get to the next hand. Extra points are scored when the pot is small and they do this.

b

[PhatPots]

casinorama is in Orillia, Ontario. About an hour and a half North of Toronto. Its a pretty big size, probably the biggest casino in Ontario.

[Baulucky]

In my casino, you have to show both cards AND fart loudly to claim any pot.

[Photoc]

[ QUOTE ]
casinorama is in Orillia, Ontario

[/ QUOTE ]

There's your problem right there...it's in Canada /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Mike C]

In The Taj, its always show both... and show one show all.

[bdk3clash]

[ QUOTE ]
In The Taj, its always show both... and show one show all.

[/ QUOTE ]
I was just talking about this this past weekend--this is not what "show one, show all" means. "Show one, show all" means that if you flash your hand to a neighbor, you are obligated to show the hand to the whole table. (This rule varies by room BTW.)

If you voluntarily choose to flash one card after taking down a hand uncalled, you are under no obligation to show the other card to anyone no matter what.

[Luv2DriveTT]

[ QUOTE ]
(This rule varies by room BTW.)

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not so sure about that bdk3clash, I belive this is a standard rule, and has been enforced in every room I have played in so far across the country.

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[Luv2DriveTT]

[ QUOTE ]
From Robert's Rules of Poker (http://www.homepokertourney.com/rules_roberts.htm#THE%20SHOWDOWN) :

[ QUOTE ]
THE SHOWDOWN
1. A player must show all cards in the hand face-up on the table to win any part of the pot.



[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, but you are incorrect. In the last issue of Card Player - Robert himself (Bob Ciafone) says:

[ QUOTE ]
In a recent e-mail, a player told me about a situation that occurred in which only one card was shown, and asked if I thought the players had a right to see the whole hand. My rules did not talk about this situation, and I do not know of any other set of rules that does. Yet, I have seen it occur several times over the years, usually with someone claiming the whole hand must be shown. In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with flashing a card as you throw away your hand — assuming that the hand is over. Sometimes a player shows a "bad one," implying that he stole the pot without showing the whole hand. More often, he shows a "good one," as if to say, "I had you beat." The point is, there is no reason anyone should be entitled to view more than what was shown. If a lady decides to dress in a manner to reveal some cleavage, are you then entitled to look at the whole works? You have to respect a person's right to give only a partial view, instead of concluding that the right to privacy no longer exists once a portion has been revealed.


[/ QUOTE ]

On a similar yet un-related note
[ QUOTE ]
I just got a letter from a reader who thinks showing a card to your opponent is a form of angle-shooting and should not be allowed in any game. Let me say that if you are in a cash-game pot heads up with me and decide to show me one of your holecards, I will not accuse you of angle-shooting, so feel free to try to deceive me by revealing half of your hand!

[/ QUOTE ]

For the record, I was surprised to read this. I thought it was a rule.

http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_magazine/archives/?a_id=14343

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[Luv2DriveTT]

And then I found out it is not a rule.... even though it has been enforced in every card room I have been in so far. Amazing.

http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_magazine/archives/?a_id=14343

[flawless_victory]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
From Robert's Rules of Poker (http://www.homepokertourney.com/rules_roberts.htm#THE%20SHOWDOWN) :

[ QUOTE ]
THE SHOWDOWN
1. A player must show all cards in the hand face-up on the table to win any part of the pot.



[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, but you are incorrect. In the last issue of Card Player - Robert himself (Bob Ciafone) says:


[/ QUOTE ]hes obviously talking about when a pot is won without a showdown. i haven read it yet, but i assume hes just expressing disagreement with "show one, show all" rules
YOU MUST SHOW BOTH CARDS TO WIN A POT... IF SOMEBODY PLAYED A HOME GAME WITH ME AND REFUSED TO SHOW BOTH CARDS, WE WOULD NOT BE FRIENDS. I AM NOT JOKING. I EFFING HATE ONE ONE-CARD-SHOWERS.

[Evan]

After you left Dave won a pretty big pot uncontested and he flipped up one card. One of the non-us guys asked what the other one was. Jokingly I said, "show one show all" assuming that after the 20 minute discussion we had about it no one would take me seriously. Well right away the dealer flips up the second card. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Sorry Dave. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[sfer]

Why can't you ask the pit boss to clarify the rule even after the turd-bag agrees to show both cards?

[sfer]

Shaun did worse once. I showed my hand down, villain mucks, Shaun asks to see his hand, he has a winner. Floor is called, I still get the pot, correctly, because he mucked his hand.

[Lurshy]

Interestingly, if YOU had asked to see his cards when he folded, he would have been awarded the pot!!!, but with a third party asking, the cards stay dead.

Unusal, but true.

[Evan]

I assume this was when Shaun was playing not dealing, right?

What's the rule if someone mucks (or tries to w/o actually touching the muck) and the dealer flips their hand and its a winner?

[Luv2DriveTT]

[ QUOTE ]
Interestingly, if YOU had asked to see his cards when he folded, he would have been awarded the pot!!!, but with a third party asking, the cards stay dead.


[/ QUOTE ]

Incorrect. The rule states that anyone at the table can ask to see the folded cards (this was by design to stop collusion, however the rule has been abused), and the results will stand (cards speak). However once the folded hand touches the muck, it is too late.

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[Luv2DriveTT]

[ QUOTE ]
I assume this was when Shaun was playing not dealing, right?

What's the rule if someone mucks (or tries to w/o actually touching the muck) and the dealer flips their hand and its a winner?

[/ QUOTE ]

You just answered your own question Evan... then its a winner.

PS: Isn't it a week already? time to change the avatar. I'm getting tired of looking at the back of Bison's head.

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[Evan]

No, Tuesday.