Stealing from off the button.. A few questionable hands [party 30+3]

[Benholio]

I've been having no problems with the 20+2's (30% ROI, > 1000 played), but I keep having problems when I try to move up to the 30+3's. My latest attempt finds me breaking even after 200 tourneys. So, I am going to post some questionable hands/situations in a few threads to see if I can tighten my game up a bit.

First off, stealing from off the button.. 1 off.. 2 off.. 3 off.. sometimes I am not sure if I should steal with a hand from these spots. Here are a couple hands, would you try to steal with these?

Hand #1
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (5 handed)

Hero (t805)
Button (t1250)
SB (t3465)
BB (t1680)
UTG (t800)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="666666">UTG folds</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero ?</font>


Hand #2
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (7 handed)

Hero (t690)
CO (t985)
Button (t960)
SB (t1175)
BB (t2635)
UTG (t1030)
MP1 (t525)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="666666">UTG folds, MP1 folds,</font> <font color="CC3333">Hero ?</font>


Hand #3
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (5 handed)

UTG (t2490)
Hero (t1510)
Button (t1820)
SB (t1005)
BB (t1175)

Preflop: Hero is MP with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero ?</font>


Hand #4
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (7 handed)

UTG (t620)
MP1 (t455)
Hero (t465)
CO (t1495)
Button (t2860)
SB (t890)
BB (t1215)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG folds, MP1 folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero ?</font>

[Bigwig]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand #1
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (5 handed)

Hero (t805)
Button (t1250)
SB (t3465)
BB (t1680)
UTG (t800)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="666666">UTG folds</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero ?</font>

[/ QUOTE ]

Fold.


[ QUOTE ]
Hand #2
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (7 handed)

Hero (t690)
CO (t985)
Button (t960)
SB (t1175)
BB (t2635)
UTG (t1030)
MP1 (t525)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="666666">UTG folds, MP1 folds,</font> <font color="CC3333">Hero ?</font>

[/ QUOTE ]

Fold.


[ QUOTE ]
Hand #3
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (5 handed)

UTG (t2490)
Hero (t1510)
Button (t1820)
SB (t1005)
BB (t1175)

Preflop: Hero is MP with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero ?</font>

[/ QUOTE ]

All-in.


[ QUOTE ]
Hand #4
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (7 handed)

UTG (t620)
MP1 (t455)
Hero (t465)
CO (t1495)
Button (t2860)
SB (t890)
BB (t1215)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG folds, MP1 folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero ?</font>

[/ QUOTE ]

All-in. You've got less than 5BB, time to get aggressive.

Just my opinions, of course.

[Gar Pike]

Hey, Ben

FWIW, 1) fold, 2) fold, 3) raise to 600 and call any rr, 4)raise or fold, your choice

If your image is tight, all in on hand 4) might be enough to steal the blinds, might be good enough to win a showdown. I would expect a call, though, just because you're short-stacked and could be going in with anything.

Now that I think about it, maybe just a value-raise sized raise (to 300) might be scarier than an all-in, you're obviously pot committed there.

Of course, if you get called, you're in trouble, but then, you'd probably get called by worse hands if you went all in than you would if you just made a value raise, as well as by the hands that are good enough to call a value raise. (I've been called by 7,5 offsuit on my short-stack all in, FGS) Which would worsen your chances of holding up to a showdown...

Hand 3 has enough possibilities that it looks to me like a value raise is in order, but that might be enough to steal the blinds.

Hands 1 and 2 are so marginal, their only value is to steal the blinds. Unless the table is so tight that you can count on that happening, (and in that case you're in real trouble if you're called) or so loose that you think you would be ahead of any caller, I think a muck is in order, you have no oney invested and you're not desparately short-stacked.

As with any of my advice on how to play, season well and allow to stand for several hours before serving. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Regards,

Gar Pike

[adanthar]

1)In the 50's, I all in here. In the 30's, I would fold.

2)Easy fold.

3)I would go all in here but fold with 1 more player left.

4)All in.

[Gar Pike]

Hi, Bigwig

Looks like we have a difference of opinion on hand 3...

What are your reasons for going all in here, rather than playing it? Stack size? EV calculation? Is this hand marginal enough that you don't want callers?

Asking for thoughts, not criticizing your advice...

Regards,

Gar Pike

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
What are your reasons for going all in here, rather than playing it? Stack size? EV calculation? Is this hand marginal enough that you don't want callers?

[/ QUOTE ]A)If you're willing to call an all in, go all in yourself

B)You want AJ and 99 to fold, not come over the top

[Bigwig]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi, Bigwig

Looks like we have a difference of opinion on hand 3...

What are your reasons for going all in here, rather than playing it? Stack size? EV calculation? Is this hand marginal enough that you don't want callers?

Asking for thoughts, not criticizing your advice...

Regards,

Gar Pike

[/ QUOTE ]

Stack size is a major issue. Also getting A's to fold. It's certainly worth a raise from this position, and that raise commits 40% of your stack. Time to push.

Also, on hand 1, I didn't pay attention to the stack sizes. I amend my answer on Hand 1 to all-in.

[ChrisV]

My answers - I play $200's, so take that into account.

(1) Allin
(2) Fold
(3) Allin
(4) Allin

(2) and (3) are easy. (1) and (4) are closer but still clear.

The reason (2) is a fold is that you have 7BB, c.f. (1) and (4) where you have around 4-4.5 BB, and the blinds are small (c.f. (2) and (3)) relative to the total chip pool, so stealing them doesn't advance you as far towards your ultimate goal of owning all the chips.

[SmileyEH]

1) all in
2) fold
3) sometimes all in, sometimes fold
4) all in

-SmileyEH

[Benholio]

Thanks for all the replies everyone.

The way I have been playing, I push with 1) every time, just because of my stack size relative to the blinds.

2) I thought was really borderline, and I am still not sure what the play is.

3) and 4) I both push with on a regular basis, but I really hate pushing with those 2's, I just see it as a necessary play and pray to not get any callers.

Thanks for the feedback.