Maniacs - how to play them?

[Rocco]

I'm having troubles playing against maniacs. The books tell you to isolate against him and play the maniac heads-up. Well, that only works if you're to his immediate left. What if he's on the opposite side of the table? I've noticed that a maniac at the table affects otherwise decent players to play/raise marginal hands even though one or two good players are left to act. How to handle those players?

Do you see the dilemma? A maniac raises, a player to his left calls. You have a hand which is almost certain to beat the maniac but not sure to have the caller beat. Furthermore, there's a good player a few seats to your left who has position on you. You might want to raise but you don't know what the good player has, and he doesn't know what you raise with. Being a good player, he knows that you might raise with any hand that has the maniac beat.

Do you change your starting hand selection when in a game featuring a maniac? How? What hands do you typically continue with after seeing the flop? Assume there's two more, quite decent, players going ballistic when the maniac starts raising...

Here's a hand I played for free earlier today. What do you put MP1, Maniac and SB on? Where did I mess up? FYI: MP1 is rather fishy and SB is sLP-P.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 <font color="purple">(Maniac)</font> calls, MP3 calls, CO folds, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (7 SB) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(7 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, Maniac checks, MP3 checks, Button checks.

<font color="blue">Planned a check-raise and obviously thought Maniac would bet the flop as he always does. </font>

Turn: (3.50 BB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(7 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG folds, <font color="CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, <font color="CC3333">Maniac 3-bets</font>, MP3 folds, Button folds, SB calls, Hero calls, <font color="CC3333">MP1 caps</font>, Maniac calls, SB calls, Hero calls.

<font color="blue">Ooops... 2 bets to call, should I have raised instead? </font>

River: (19.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, <font color="CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Maniac raises</font>, <font color="CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, Hero folds, MP1 calls, Maniac calls.

<font color="blue">Darn, a third spade... Pretty easy fold... or? </font>

Final Pot: 28.50 BB
<font color="green">Main Pot: 28.50 BB, between MP1, Maniac and SB.</font>

[easypete]

I don't enjoy being across the table from a maniac. I'll generally leave the table.

In the past, my favorite position has been just to the maniac's left, but now I prefer to be one or two seats away. This helps me trap a couple players. Always good for a few extra bets, but I have to tighten up a little to do this, compared to sitting next door.

I can also play a maniac on my left. If you can count on the maniac's raises, you can let the maniac isolate you, and if your hand is strong, the players downstream don't pay much attention to your bet, they pay attention to the maniacs raise, so you can get more action with the right table. You also must tighten up a bit more here as well.

As for your hand. Lead out on the flop. Bet, raise, 3-bet, cap the turn. If a new player wakes up on the river, slow down, but you have to call here. Pot is way to big to fold. I've seen these pots won by a rivered 2-pr.

[MAxx]

as for playing maniacs.... it is true that you want to try and isolate them like you are saying. sometimes, however the other players at the table are just not going to be agreeable. therefore, it can be foolish to try and make isolation plays with good but not excellent hands when the table will not permit this play. similarly, several players could be trying to isolate at the same time... and then it can get real nasty. you just have to size up how people at the table are reacting to the maniac and your play. position can be real important, enough so that leaving the table is often a good option.

as a side sometimes you cannot isolate pf only, it may involve getting nasty on the flop as well to drive out another player. be careful though, this could get expensive... and that other player could have a real hand.

generally speaking, my strategy once heads up with a maniac is to raise or overplay my excellent hands much more so than i would against a normal reasonable person. With weaker holdings...I will then check/call alot of average or marginal stuff like bottom pair, and let him either bluff off his chips or if he has me... i minimize loss.

this strategy is from experience only... not to be taken authoritatively. i would be interested to see if anyone can critique my strategy.

[sthief09]

your trouble began when you tried to slowplay (not really a slowplay, but that's how it turned out). by slowplaying, you are trying to convince your opponents that your hand is weak. unfortuantely, when you act weak without exceptional or unbeatable hands, your opponents will assume you're weak and act accordingly against the maniac. they don't fear you since you have underrepresented your strong hand. on the turn, I wouldn't be surprised if MP1 just saw the maniac raise and tried to isolate him. he could think you're just taking a stab at the pot and raise the maniac. I would've capped the turn to show them that you have a good hand. the river is tough. SB underwent a lot of action on the turn, so you have to assume he had something. it wouldn't make sense for him to check 3-bet without a big hand. in this case it really looks like he has trips, or slowplayed a boat.

in this hand, you got run over on the turn. I'm sure you were really confused, before the river card came out, where you stood. I would've capped the turn. MP1 could easily be 3-betting light there. show him that you have a hand.

[Rocco]

[ QUOTE ]
your trouble began when you tried to slowplay (not really a slowplay, but that's how it turned out). by slowplaying, you are trying to convince your opponents that your hand is weak. unfortuantely, when you act weak without exceptional or unbeatable hands, your opponents will assume you're weak and act accordingly against the maniac. they don't fear you since you have underrepresented your strong hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Word... You are absolutely right. I'm supposed to bet out in order to represent a good hand to the others. The maniac doesn't bother, it's my other opponents who should be convinced.