Making the move from $5/$10 to $10/$20

[TJD]

I wonder whether the players who have been through this move would be prepared to help with a bit of advice based on your experience.

Assuming that a player has a decent win rate at $5/$10 and has the bankroll to move up:-

a) What reduction in win rate, if any, do you think is to be expected in the move up?

b) I have read here that $10/$20 is more aggressive. I have watched and played a little at this level and there is indeed more raising on all streets.

To my less experienced eyes much of it seems misplaced. True, it is always harder to play against aggressive players and their bets/raises do give them additional folding equity.

However, since they seem to be often doing this with fairly weak hands, won't decent players who have any sort of read on them be roping and doping, causing the LAG to lose more?

Have I got this right or are there some other important aspects I have missed in relation to the aggression?

c) What do YOU think are the main differences from $5/$10 that I would need to adjust to?

d) Posts often suggest that table selection and knowing your players is more important at $10/$20. Do you agree that individual player notes are important and if so what ones do you keep and which do you feel are most use?

Hope you will help.

Thanks for your time.

Trevor

[Nikla]

I was a loser in that game when I first moved up. Like you said it tends to be alot more volatile than the 5/10. It just plays different. I would say there's a bigger gap between 5/10 and 10/20 than between 10/20 and 15/30 in terms of general aggression level.

If I were you I'd go for a careful approach. Play tight (+- 25% flops seen) in the beginning to get accustomed to the game and the doubled stakes, but don't play scared when you're in a pot. On the other hand, don't play so tight that you feel you have to take every AK to showdown. As you gain experience in the game and start beating it for a decent winrate, loosen up. Openraise more from all positions and defend your BB more liberally. You can get away with alot in this game if your postflop play is good.

All the best,
-Nikla

[ProfLupin]

Hey Trevor,

I just made the switch myself and there is definately more aggression on all streets. I personally like playing against that style and have always tried to find 5/10 tables that played like that, so I felt at home right away. I think the biggest hurdle is your own head thinking about the size of the pot in dollars instead of in bets. It's a lot of money! But you can't think about it like that without getting timid. When you say "properly bankrolled" I would hope that is 400BB instead of 300, because the swings are huge.

My transition has gone really really well due to some good cards. I hope yours goes as well.

[TJD]

Any other views?

t

[DrGutshot]

400bb bankroll? That sounds far too small to me for 10/20. I have not jumped up to them, so I am not a great source, however, I alwasy assumed that the 300bb req. is for a single table, usually live play. I think for the 10/20 hyperaggro games a bankroll of 600bb is the minimum.

-DrG

[tablecop]

c) What do YOU think are the main differences from $5/$10 that I would need to adjust to?

i found this post helpful


(this is from my favorite links, i'm not sure it will post correctly. Peter_rus posted on Aug 6, 2004)

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/favlinker.php?Cat=&Entry=37017&F_Board=headsup&Thr ead=900413&partnumber=&postmarker=

d) Posts often suggest that table selection and knowing your players is more important at $10/$20. Do you agree that individual player notes are important and if so what ones do you keep and which do you feel are most use?

SeeFlopNotBlind, PreFlopRaise, AttemptStealBlind, FoldBigBlindToSteal, FoldToRiverBet, WinAtShowdownWhenBettingOrRaisingRiver

I don't use the PT defined Aggression factors (on each street) because i find it more useful to create my own.

[TJD]

Thank you, the link was very interesting. I did not find it when I did a search. Peter_Rus as always did a good job of analysis.

Trevor

[joker122]

i crushed 5/10 after 55k hands and took a shot at 10/20 about 2 weeks ago. i've played ~20k and have lost 150BB. i'm back at 5/10 now.

the main difference is it's just alot more lag. to be honest, i found it very difficult. that might be bacause i ran really shitty though...so i don't know. all i do know is that i played well (for me) and lost.

[joker122]

i actually thought of something constructive i can add to this thread.

at 10/20 it's more important to consider your image when making a marginal decision. an example is flop play with overcards. you're more likely to get 3bet if you've raised a few times previous with overcards and have shown down. in other words, players at 10/20 pay more attention and are better atplaying the player instead of thier cards.

[Guido]

Just to show once again that the swings can be huge. Yesterday morning I played for 2 hours and lost 70BB. In the afternoon I played for two more hours and lost 30BB. In the evening I lost 25BB in the first 2 hours. In the last 3 hours I won 165BB. Yes I played a lot yesterday /images/graemlins/grin.gif.

Thanks,

Guido