TT in Monster Pot...Played properly?

[Ajax410]

Would anywone have played this differently? I thought about capping the flop, but it was my opponent's first raise in 30 hands.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, <font color="CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, <font color="CC3333">MP2 3-bets</font>, MP3 folds, Hero calls, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls.

Flop: (14.50 SB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, <font color="CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, Hero calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls.

Turn: (8.75 BB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
MP1 checks, <font color="CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, Hero calls, MP1 folds.

River: (10.75 BB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP2 calls.

Final Pot: 14.75 BB
<font color="green">Main Pot: 14.75 BB, between MP2 and Hero.</font>

[Alobar]

fold pre flop

fold the turn

[Ajax410]

I think there is a case to be made for folding this preflop - but I'm not sure about the turn. There is $39 in the pot, I need to put in $4, and there is another guy left to act behind me. I have an open-ended straight. Why would I possibly fold? Am I missing something?

Ajax

[SCfuji]

depending on the raisers i sometimes cap TT preflop. call down is fine.

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
Would anywone have played this differently? I thought about capping the flop, but it was my opponent's first raise in 30 hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the opponent in question is MP2 and you're talking preflop, he didn't just raise, he 3-bet. Folding seems sensible to me, unless you think there'll be enough people in to play for your set.

I wouldn't fold the turn with my one-card OESD, but Alobar must have his reasons. A turn fold might be correct, but I'm not sure why it is. So I'm waiting to find out.

[Ryan Winter]

As has been said, calling preflop might be bad, but not horrible. Calling the whole way is fine considering the turn made you double gutted.

[Evan]

Get out of there preflop. I don't think I've ever coldcalled 3 bets and if I ever did this wouldn't be the time to do it. On the flop its big enough to peel one off but there's also the possibility of a check-raise (especially with that board). I think I'd fold to the first flop bet since I have no idea what would happen behind me. After that you have no reason to call the turn with probably only 4 outs.

You river g00t.


EDIT: I didn't realize you were double gutted on the turn. But you still shouldn't have seen the turn card anyway.

[Ajax410]

Only 4 outs on the turn? What makes you think my double gutshot isn't good?

With regards to folding this preflop - I'm really not sure why. Maybe I'm overvaluing TT, but it seems like a pretty solid starting hand - the big debate I was having with myself was whether to cap or call.

Ajax

[daveymck]

[ QUOTE ]
Only 4 outs on the turn? What makes you think my double gutshot isn't good?

With regards to folding this preflop - I'm really not sure why. Maybe I'm overvaluing TT, but it seems like a pretty solid starting hand - the big debate I was having with myself was whether to cap or call.

Ajax

[/ QUOTE ]

Have a think about the range of hands you would three bet with and then see why you should have folded.

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
. . . you have no reason to call the turn with probably only 4 outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why are there only four outs? I'm thinking a nine will probably at least give Hero a chop. But you and Alobar agree that the turn should be folded. And Hero almost has the odds to call for the four king outs alone.

Maybe it's not really four outs. Maybe someone has a king in their hand. Still, what am I missing?

[Evan]

[ QUOTE ]
Only 4 outs on the turn? What makes you think my double gutshot isn't good?

[/ QUOTE ]
Mostly the fact that I didn't see it. /images/graemlins/smile.gif


[ QUOTE ]
With regards to folding this preflop - I'm really not sure why. Maybe I'm overvaluing TT, but it seems like a pretty solid starting hand

[/ QUOTE ]
It is, its very solid. AQs is a very solid hand too, but I'd fold that here. When its 3 bets before it gets to you you need to tighten up severely. I think SSH reccomends only playing AA-QQ and AKs in this spot (and obviously capping with all of them).

[bakku]

The postflop play is fine, I can't imagine folding anytime during the hand once I've called the 3 bets cold preflop (which, like everyone has said, is bad). Hero has more than enough odds to continue from the flop on.

[SCfuji]

yeah dont cold call, CAP IT.

plus it looks better in pokertracker**.





**joke.

[private joker]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think I've ever coldcalled 3 bets and if I ever did this wouldn't be the time to do it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ironic to see this post today, after having just done the above. I had A /images/graemlins/heart.gifK /images/graemlins/heart.gif in MP3 and the pot was raised and 3-bet to me. Ordinarily I'd cap this, but the second raiser was the tightest old bastard I'd seen in a while. He hadn't even raised PF yet, let alone 3-bet, and had checked a BB option with QQ. I had to give him credit for AA or KK, so I cold-called 3, hoping I at least had the original raiser covered (though he was pretty tight-passive as well). Furthermore, there were still 4 players left to act and I wanted as much dead padding as possible given my reads.

Flop was low and ragged with 2 hearts, and I made it 3-bets. Turn brought a K /images/graemlins/club.gif and the old guy stop-n-go'd into me; I just called (I bet people hate this play). River was another /images/graemlins/heart.gif and I won. Turns out the old geezer did have KK. I suck out g00t. Original raiser mucked without showing.

So yeah. I suggest cold-calling 3 bets with AKs against extremely tight players who almost always have AA or KK. I also suggest watching REQUIEM FOR A DREAM over and over again, so what do I know...

[Evan]

I read the first line or so of your post. I saw something about not capping AKs. Now I'm sad.

[private joker]

[ QUOTE ]
I read the first line or so of your post. I saw something about not capping AKs. Now I'm sad.

[/ QUOTE ]

Aww... come on, read the rest. Not only did I get max value out of it (I suckered the blinds into the hand), but my read was correct -- I was dominated preflop!

[Evan]

okay okay. I guess it was alright, but I like capping, so I would've capped. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Seriously thouogh, in a B+M game you can get away with this by getting 3 others to coldcall 3 bets and give you enough equity to continue.

Good read, nice play, don't do it again. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[SCfuji]

seeing now that you wouldve won, you shouldve capped all 4 streets.

[private joker]

Aren't we results oriented? /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[SCfuji]

its always good to be results oriented. how else would we know how to have played a hand?? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[profpeebody]

Pre-flop:
In the best case, I would think you were up against two players with over cards (AJ and AK). If one four over cards flops, you may be severeley behind and also unsure if you have the best hand. The chances of avoiding an over card on the flop is ~1/3 and the odds get worse as the hand goes on. (no over cards for the whole hand ~1/8).

In a worse case, you are up against a higher pocket pair (quite possibly the pre-flop 3-better) and two over cards. Which means you need to make a set or weird straight (good chance your a 10-high flush is a loser).

[lu_hawk]

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe I'm overvaluing TT, but it seems like a pretty solid starting hand - the big debate I was having with myself was whether to cap or call.


[/ QUOTE ]

How often do you see a normal loose passive party 2/4 player 3-bet without a high PP? Unless I know otherwise I always give them credit for it and I would definitely fold TT in this spot. I would also fold JJ.

[Alobar]

oops, I missed the double gutter...sorry, yeah its a call.

fold preflop /images/graemlins/smile.gif