Holdem and Omaha 8

I have been playing both Holdem and O/8 at Paradise Poker for almost 2 years. Although both games have been profitable the fluctuations at Holdem have been much greater and the level of play in the O/8 games is significantly worse than the level of play in the Holdem games.

My Brick and Mortar experience is limited to about a dozen trips to AC and LV playing almost exclusively Holdem with no O/8 play.

My question to the forum is to those who have played both extensively in live games. Are the O/8 games easier than the Holdem games at similar limits?

Funny how I was thinking about asking the same question. So I've heard Omaha HL has lower standard deviation for a good player than playing holdem? I only have limited experience playing Omaha HL so I'm wondering if it's true. Thanks.

I've played a lot of B&M HoldEm and Omaha8 in California in the last 2 years, and keep fairly detailed records.


Overall, Omaha8 is a more profitable game for me (about 2BB/hour vs 1.3BB for HoldEm), but the variance is MUCH higher. This is largely because of the typical nature of the Omaha8 games in CA - extremely loose (this is at places like Commerce, Bay101, Lucky Chances, Viejas, Oceans11). Even playing a solid tight-aggressive strategy, you typically find 3-7 players in these low-limit games drawing all the way to the river to non-nut hands.


Now don't get me wrong, the average low-limit HoldEm game in CA is similarly loose, it's just that with 4 cards vs. 2 and the Hi/Lo aspect of Omaha8, your average loose player has much more to like when they look down at their hand.


So I think my answer is that it depends greatly on the texture of the O8 game - I've played in O8 games at the Mirage that were much, much tighter than in CA with much better players.


Not sure that helps much, but overall I would also say that the average low limit player plays worse at Omaha than at HoldEm - thus giving you an advantage if you can afford the fluctuations...


Cheers...


DrJ

Over a several year period in both the LA and SF areas I played lots of low limit (up to 6-12) O/8 and a decent amount of HE. I did not keep the detailed records that Dr. J kept, but my experience is that O/8 is a MUCH more profitable game with much less negative fluctuation than HE. Part of that might be because I never let myself have a losing session of more than 20 BBs (I would then get up and leave the table). At least once a month, I would have an O/8 session of +50 or more BBs. So I guess there were some big fluctuations in O/8, but they were of the positive variety /images/smile.gif

I've always had this little voice in my head that questions the assumption that poker results following a normal (bell curve) distribution. I don't have any evidence, or compelling logic, to back this up; it's just a niggling doubt.


Maybe, and I do emphasize *maybe*, the distribution for Omaha is skewed. Skewed positively for the good player and skewed negatively for the bad one. Hmm?


Would MMMM (Mason Malmuth, our resident Math Maven) have an opinion?


Ron

I would like to point out that the level of "poker" is less in o8- mainely because like one poster mentioned above- a loose player will find much more to like in his hand at o8.

therefor, a rather tight player, with alot of patiance will have an excellent opportunity to wait and eventually pick up a hand that gives him a much bigger edge than a waiting player in HE.

By Poker I mean- the necessity to have an almost perfect idea of your opponents hands.

In HE most opponents will release their hands when this tight player finally enters the pot, but in o8- much to my surprise- this is not the case. In o8 you can bet your very strong hand very openly and still get lots of weak callers.

Add the abilitys of a good player, to read the others and bet acordingly and thus extracting a couple of extra bets, and you have yourself a very profitable game. But as in most games- Your opponets will not just give their money away. Most will have a decent idea, and the wait can therefor be long- provocing even the better players to loosen up, and find themselves in a real Lotto-like game, where practically anyone can win. My personal experience is that it suites me, and I have little-no problem to win atleast 1.5 bb/h

Hi Dr. J !!


If you look at your records. Do you find that the daily winpercentage is higher at "Omaha hi/lo 8 or better" compared to HE. A good holdemplayer has a daily winpercentage of about 67% making 1 or a little more BB/h but I guess it's higher at Omaha (lowlimits). Since You have records it would be interesting to know.

Interestingly, I just checked and as I suspected, it's actually lower for Omaha (61% vs. 68%). However, my average win for Omaha is much larger than my average loss (and larger than the comparable win in HoldEm), making it more profitable even though I win less often.


I would guess that the reason for this is that I still feel Omaha is a more volatile game, even when played tightly and aggressively, as you have far more people calling you to the river trying to draw out on you (sometimes correctly, most often incorrectly). Thus, when you do scoop a hand, it has the potential to be enormous, thus the potential for very large wins (relatively) in O8. However, it also has its downside - on a night when either you miss a number of nut draws in a row or somebody draws out on you a couple times in a row, you can experience fairly disappointing results. Of course, this is the same in any game, but my sense is that it is more pronounced in O8...


Anyways, intriguing fodder for discussion...


DrJ