NL O/8 - help

I posted this message in the tournament area but only received one reply, so I am hoping that I can get some help from the O/8 players here.


I am going to be entering an 0/8 tourney that starts out limit (I have played these before) and switches to NL - where I have no experience. If anyone could provide some advice, I would appreciate it.

At the local cardroom I play in they have a weekly tournament that follows this structure, the no-limit doesn't occur until the last or last two tables.


Although it would seem that with O/8 there would be a lot of preflop limping, and then the person who flopped the nuts would bet all in, this is not what I have experienced. It seems like most people wait until they have any A2 or A3suited, or AA and raise all in. So, I usually wait until I have a very coordinated hand to call and hope for the best. There doesn't appear to be much skill in this game other than watching what hands make other opponents push in, since there are still a lot of split pots you do get a good opportunity to do this.


Thanks,


acesover8s

iblucky4u2 - When you think about it, after you have made the final table in a limit tournament, at some point the limits become so high that you don’t have enough chips to cover a bet each of the four betting rounds (unless you have one of the big stacks, and maybe not even then). Thus when you voluntarily enter the action against a larger stack you are either feinting or committing all your chips. (If you’re feinting at this point, it’s a very risky tactic against an opponent with a larger stack than you). I have often thought that when you reach this point in a limit tournament, the possibility of facing a raise which would put you all-in on this betting round or the next must be similar to that which you face in a no-limit tournament.


At this point in a limit Omaha-8 tournament, when you are the one with the larger stack you can often bully someone with a smaller stack. This should be even easier in a no-limit tournament than in a limit tournament because one would not even possibly have to wait for the next betting round to make the move. I think that once you have gotten to the final table, if you are lucky enough to have one of the larger stacks, you should, early on, establish the image of bullying someone with a very small stack - especially someone who dares to call or raise your blind. Even if you lose the confrontation, your opponents will be less likely to try to steal your blinds. Sometimes in this situation I’ll say something like, “Let’s put you all-in.” Sends a very clear message to the other players.


The thing about Omaha-8 is that three out of five hands someone makes a low. Thus if you go all-in with a nice hand like AhAsQhQs, three out of five times your opponent is likely to split the pot with you even when you do win for high hand. And if you go all in with a nice hand like Ah2h3c4c, two out of five times no low will be possible (actually it’s even a bit worse at 45% if you have four low cards). And if there is no low, you’ll not likely beat your opponent for high either (although, on the positive side, if there is a low you very well might scoop).


There is a high risk of failure (1) when you do have one of the nice hands noted in the previous paragraph, (2) when you get one-on-one with someone who has larger stack, and (3) when you don’t have enough chips to cover all the betting rounds in a limit Omaha-8 tournament. I prefer a hand like Ah2h3cAc, Ah2h3cKc, Ah2hKcQc or Ah2hKcKs when confronting a larger or equal stack. These are all hands with both very strong high-hand and very strong low-hand potential. Trouble is, you obviously don’t see those hands much in a tournament, certainly not once a round, and with your blinds coming up you don’t like to get to the point of posting your blind and having it stolen most of the time unless you’re doing some blind stealing yourself.


With your blinds coming up you compromise a little bit and become willing to commit your stack with hands like Ah2h3dKc, Ah2hKdQc or Ah2hQcQs. And then when you’ll be posting all-in on the very next deal, well, all right, Ah3s5dKc, Ah3sKdQc or Ah3sQcQs (or better) will do.


So those are the kinds of hands that I’ll voluntarily play at that point in the tournament when I don’t have enough chips to cover bets on all the betting rounds, unless I’m trying to steal the blinds (and that is almost entirely a function of whether I think I’m likely to get away with the steal or not). Otherwise there is some pleasure to be derived from sitting quietly and waiting for a hand while your opponents annihilate each other.


Would I play 2345 or KQJT here? No. What about KKQQ? No. What about A288? No. There simply is too great a risk of missing the flop with any of these hands.


If I was playing with a small or medium stack at the final table in an Omaha-8 tournament that had become no-limit, I think I’d voluntarily play about the same (very limited) range of hands as if the tournament had not become no-limit.


When the blinds and limits become so large that most players don’t have enough chips to cover bets on all the betting rounds, the game becomes like a crap shoot, with very little skill involved. I would imagine it’s the same thing at a no-limit Omaha-8 final table, as acesover8s has already opined. For one thing, the blinds are going to be huge and probably doubling every twenty or thirty minutes, just like at the final table in a limit Omaha-8 tournament. At this point in a limit tournament there are usually not more than two players seeing the flop, often with one of them all-in. I wouldn’t think a no-limit tournament would be substantially different.


What happens when there are just two or three players left and they all have enough chips to cover bets every betting round? In this case, I think you have to do your share of blind stealing while you wait for a killer hand.


There’s more I’m thinking about, but I’ve already written way too much. I liked David Sklansky’s new Tournament Poker book. He presents some ideas about no-limit tournament concepts and all-in strategy that might benefit you. I assume you’ve already read Zee.


Good luck to you. I’d be interested in your observations and conclusions, especially comparing strategy between limit and no-limit final table Omaha-8 tournament play.


Buzz

Just wanted to say thanks for the posts - most informative. I was going to play last night on one of the gambling/cruise ships in Florida, but the lightening storm kept me ashore. I will be trying again next Monday and will post my observations.

When it is NL you have blind stealing opportunities.


AAbaby is a big raising hand.


Towards the end most sensible looking hands pre-flop are 40+% against AA - so you can call heads up when you've already invested a high percentage of your stack fairly liberally.