River Lay Down -- Stupid??

[gaming_mouse]

Pacific Poker 2/4 Loose Passive

Hero MP3 with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises </font>, LP calls, CO folds, <font color="red"> Button 3-bets </font>, folded to Hero, Hero calls, LP calls.

Flop: T/images/graemlins/spade.gif K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 6/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 handed)

Checked to button, who bets. Hero and LP call.

Turn: A/images/graemlins/spade.gif

Hero checks, Button raises, Hero folds.

Bad fold?? I felt I was drawing to 3 dirty outs, the queens. Was that too presumptuous?

gm

[maynard]

What about your J outs? 3 to the nuts for a likely split pot, the other makes a b-door flush for somebody. I would count those as two outs effectively, as you said the Q outs aren't too hot as you could easily be dominated by AA, AK, KK, and they put a lovely 4-card straight on board (possible since LP could have who-knows-what).

I think you're read on the button is the critical aspect here - even in these passive games there are LAGs capable of overplaying things like QQ, JJ, or AJ (or worse) here, so you could be good unimproved a decent fraction of the time. Throwing in just a few partial outs while getting around 8.5-1 should allow you to see the river. If button is very aggro I raise here to exclude LP. Maybe make this play anyway?? I'm not real comfortable in these situations yet, I probably couldn't lay this down even against passive opponents, so I'm curious to hear what some veterans have to say.

[Fat Nicky]

[ QUOTE ]
Turn: A/images/graemlins/spade.gif

Hero checks, Button raises, Hero folds.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm assuming LP bet, then button raised.

If so, I think this is a good fold. Your Q outs are tainted, your J outs could lead to a split pot. Even your A outs are tainted to the likely button who has Aces up.

Edit: And...i'm assuming you meant to say "Turn Lay Down" in the posts Subject

[maynard]

Ah, I wondered what happened to LP here... that sure changes things.

[gaming_mouse]

I'm assuming LP bet, then button raised.

Yes. That is what I meant.

And...i'm assuming you meant to say "Turn Lay Down" in the posts Subject

Again, yes. Sorry about that. I'm on West Coast time and posted this at around 7 in the morning...

gm