KJs - Not happy with my play

[Ptolemy]

I felt totally lost on this hand and could use some advice. UTG+2 is new to the table so no reads yet.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO folds, Button folds, <font color="CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, BB folds, UTG+2 calls, Hero calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (13 SB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">UTG+2 raises</font>, Hero calls, MP3 folds, SB folds.

Turn: (9 BB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">UTG+2 bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (11 BB) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
UTG+2 checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+2 calls.

Final Pot: 13 BB

Thanks.

[Entity]

What aren't you happy about? The whole hand looks fine to me.

Rob

[wabe]

I agree with the monkey; explain what you didn't like.

On the flop, you still have a chance at a flush, you have a gutshot straight draw, and you have MPGK. Odds are fine for the cold call.

On the turn, you have 9:1 pot odds. Since you still have more than 5 outs, a call is fine.

River brings your straight, at which point you bet.

So, what didn't you like? Do you feel you should've been more aggressive on the flop?

[Ptolemy]

I keep going over the odds and things looked OK on the flop, but calling behind a bet and a raise seemed like the wrong thing to do. I guess I'm just over-analyzing it.

Thanks for the response.

[Ptolemy]

Cold calling always seems like the wrong thing to do, that's what is bugging me I guess.

[Piiop]

I would fold the flop.

A guy raises the preflop 3-bettor into the preflop raiser and you have 2nd pair + gutshot straight + backdoor flush. Your outs are are very tainted (except for backdoor flush). I would give you *at most* 5 outs. Getting 8:1 the odds are close but there are players left to act after you, I fold.

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
I would fold the flop.

A guy raises the preflop 3-bettor into the preflop raiser and you have 2nd pair + gutshot straight + backdoor flush. Your outs are are very tainted (except for backdoor flush). I would give you *at most* 5 outs. Getting 8:1 the odds are close but there are players left to act after you, I fold.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm giving him 5-5.5 outs, so it's pretty close on the flop, but I certainly don't hate a call. I agree that not closing the action sucks, but I'm making one of my patented "loose calls" here.

Rob

[MrHorace]

[ QUOTE ]
I would fold the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]
Really??
With back door second-nut flush, and gut shot?
I think I understand the logic, but would like to understand more from your point of view.
Also, would like to learn the intestinal fortitude to fold this puppy on the flop.
David

[kyro]

i think the flop cold call is marginal. but the turn and river seem fine to me.

[Piiop]

Well let's look at how many outs the Hero has because he clearly does not have the best hand now.

Let's assume the SB has AA-TT, AK/AQ - standard preflop 3-betting hands (TT and AQ aren't exactly standard and some players don't even 3-bet with QQ, but I think that's a good range).

His backdoor flush is a clean 1.5 outs (You don't really want to see the A /images/graemlins/spade.gif, but we'll give a full 1.5 anyway.) However, the 1.5 outs given to the BD flush is to see the turn AND the river, so it's not a full 1.5 outs just to the turn. You also may have to call multiple bets cold on the turn, which is not good. Also, if the board pairs theres a more than normal chance you'll make a flush and lose considering the action.

3 K outs = Not clean out all. I give 0 outs for K's. It gives AK a better 2 pair, QQ/AQ a straight, and you're still behind to any set.

4 Q outs = Kind of clean. A Q puts hero ahead of anything but AK, which is now a split. However, the opponent will still have 10 outs (except with AQ) to fill on the river. The Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif is obviously the best card that could come.

2 J outs = Pretty clean. Hero would still be behind to AA and TT, but ahead of everything else.

So total those up to whatever you feel is appropriate. If you get more than 5.25 outs, your immediate odds are good. If not, than it's a clear fold.

But there's more to take into account. UTG raised the preflop 3-bettor's flop bet into the original preflop raiser. That's a pretty big show of strength. A player read would help here, but I'd say AJ or KQ are strong possibilities which further reduce the Hero's outs. Also, there's another player and the SB left to act, so you may have to put in more bets, which will further reduce your odds.