Octo goes too far with KK?

[Octopus]

SB is LA-P (40/13)
UTG is LP-P (32/3)
UTG+1 is LA-A (66/22)
EP3 is sLP-P (28/0)

(Yes, it was a shame when I had to leave that table.)

InterPoker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) (actually 1/2 pounds, but basically the same)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="666666">3 folds</font>, SB calls, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, all call

Flop: (11 SB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="CC3333">UTG+1 3-bets</font>, MP1 calls, Hero calls, SB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (13 BB) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG checks, <font color="CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>


I wanted to see what SB would do, so I just called the 3-bet on the flop. Having done so, I felt compelled to raise the turn even with that rediculously scary card. I probably should have folded here, but for 1 bet in a big pot ...

How bad is it?

[sublime]

How bad is it?

well i dont mind waiting for the turn to raise a SAFE card here, but the A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif is like the worst card you can see.

fold the turn

[Luv2DriveTT]

Agreed with Sublime on the turn.

On a related note, I thought your flop play was very interesting, something I would not have thought to do. I'd like to see further comments, CAP or Call?

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[Rubeskies]

I think capping and folding to a check/raise on the turn if a scary card comes makes the most sense.

PS Fold the turn... mostly because Ad is the worst possible card and you are not closing the action.

[StellarWind]

The turn is a disaster. It's the ace overcard, flush draw, and OESD all rolled into one card. It you were ever ahead of all these people, that surely just changed. Fold.

[Octopus]

[ QUOTE ]
On a related note, I thought your flop play was very interesting, something I would not have thought to do. I'd like to see further comments, CAP or Call?

[/ QUOTE ]

I've actually been thinking about this and I think in this case I was wrong. It seemed like a good idea in the heat of play, but now it feels exactly like raising for information (i.e. a play that doesn't work.) Suppose it gets called around; what have I learned? Suppose SB raises, what have I learned? SB could play either way with a flush draw or with a set.

I should have capped. If I had, the play would have gone check to me, SB check-raises, I fold and I would have saved half a bet. (Of course, if I had just folded the turn, I would have saved two whole bets, but alas.)

[MRBAA]

Well, these folks seem pretty maniacal but still a bet, raise and 3-bet on this ill-assorted flop strongly suggests someone has at least two pair and maybe a set. I'd call the flop because I think I'm behind, call the turn because the pot is huge and probably fold the river unimproved unless everyone else folds and I just have to call one more bet heads up.

[Octopus]

Good answer. I wasn't ready to concede that I was behind on the flop, but of course it turned out that I was.

SB's turned flush ended up losing to UTG+1's rivered fives full of twos (!).

[Fat Nicky]

I'd cap the flop and see what develops on the turn.

Raising the turn sure is an interesting play, is there any specific reason why you decided to do this? (I'm not being a smartass, i'd really like to know)

[Octopus]

The short answer is that I got caught up in the moment and did not fully appreciate the danger. (Hmmm. That's certainly worth thinking about some more.)

On a less scary card (like A/images/graemlins/club.gif) I would be raising because I might have the best hand and UTG+1 has a history of ... interesting play. I haven't shown any particular strength yet and an overpair is fairly strong. I do not think anyone actually has an ace at this point and even if they do, they may be too afraid of me to re-raise.

Here I guess I am raising because I don't like money. The more I look at it, the less I like the fact that I even posted this hand.