Is this angle-shooting?

[casinogosain]

Last night, live 10/20 at Trump, IN, this is a 1/2 kill pot (15/30):

I witnessed this hand shortly after sitting down:
UTG limped, folded to BB who raised, UTG called.

Flop: (cards unimportant) Check, bet, call.

Turn: Check, bet, call.

River: BB checks, UTG reaches for chips and starts stacking them - then sees/hears the BB putting chips out into the center and saying call - upon which UTG pulls chips back and says check.

The chips were never in the center - is this an angle?

FWIW, UTG had nothing, BB had bottom pair/no kicker.

-Ash

[andyfox]

Depends on the rules in the casino. Some say if you break your stack it's a bet. Some say you have to move them forward. Some say you have to release them. Where I play, there's a line on the table, beyond which constitutes a bet.

[namknils]

In my opinion, no this is not angle shooting. In this case. But if UTG took out the chips and started to motion to bet like a pump fake in football/basketball to see the reaction then it definatley would be. Again, just in my mind.

I think someone motioned to throw out a bunch of chips to see the reaction of an opponent on the WPT (was it the Unibomber?), that I thought was stuipid and angle shooting, although I meant it more as a playful joke.

[bconway6]

Seems UTG was thinking of making another attempt to steal the pot. In such case, that is definately an angle shot. He intentionally gained an advantage by 'starting' to bet. When he was beaten into the pot by the BB's call he decided his steal attempt was worthless and saved a bet by not completing his bet.

[casinogosain]

This is how I interpreted it as well.

-Ash

[Photoc]

If the BB starts moving chips before the original raiser actually puts them in the center, all this would be is a "tell" called telegraphing. UTG got a read on the intentions of the BB as he was trying to bluff the pot but found out the BB was going to call his bluff.

All the BB did is cost himself one big bet from the UTG.

[Cleveland Guy]

I think the fault is on the BB for jumping the gun.

Until he says bet, or check, or places chips in the center I think he hasn't broken any rules.

Many people "play" with their chips to try and get a tell. This was a dumb tell by the BB, and he should learn to be more patient.

[Cosimo]

[ QUOTE ]
The chips were never in the center - is this an angle?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, it was bad play by the BB. Moving your chips out (say, to call) before UTG has clearly made a bet is your own damn fault. UTG was going to bet, but BB acted out of turn. Is it UTG's fault that he took advantage of BB's misplay? No. It was BB's misplay.

As andyfox points out, a bet is defined by the house rules. This situation is exactly why house rules define the motion that constitutes a bet.

[pokerkai]

The other thing to think about it is that when players have weak holdings after checking theyll often appear ready to call to induce a check through. So the BBs play can sometimes be construed as an angle as well.

[QuickLearner]

I think I saw Gus Hansen do that on TV. He waved his chips toward the center and shot a quick look at the guy to his left.