Top Boat vs Quads?

[Cleveland Guy]

I am wondering if I could have played this any different here, or figured out that he had quads earlier.

$50 Pokeroom. Pretty full table, I am UTG and the BB is a very agressive, and well respected player at the table. I am sitting after him by design.

I am Dealt KKJ10 - Double Suited, and raise Pot UTG, looking maybe for a re-raise to isolate.

I get 4 calles, including the BB.

Flop comes K22 - 2 hearts.

BB Checks, I let out a bet of $4, trying to build the pot, not minding a re-raise, but trying to keep lower PPs or flush draws in.

I get 2 callers, including the BB.

Turn comes an off suit 6.

BB leads out for $10, I think he might have 6's full, so I gladly just call. Other player folds, so it's heads up heading to the river.

River is a 7 hearts, completing the flush. BB Checks to me. I figure him for the lower full house, and that he might think I'm playing the flush. So I bet out $20, hoping for a call. He re-raises all in, a move I don't think he'd make without the absolute nuts. it's another $25 for me to call into a huge pot, and I know I have top full house.

The only way I'm beat is if he has Quad 2s. I am 90% certain he does, but I call anyways, and sure enough he turns over the quads.

So my question's are 1. Could I have seen this any sooner?
2. Should I have layed down, almost certainly knowing that he had quad 2's? I even typed it in the chat before I called.
3. Should I have played this any diferently on any street in general?

[zaxx19]

flat call on the flop is a really bad sign here someone with a lower boat certainly raises to both see where he is at and protect a vulnerable hand correct?? not many people are bad enough to draw at the flush when the board is raised/paired and a A OR K hits....

i go way defensive after the flop

[SonicJimi]

I would just take my lumps there. People are unpredictable by nature, and there is enough randomness in life to more than match the chances he had the quads. Pay him off. He'll do the same for you when you have quads.

[nicky g]

Plenty of people will flat call here with a lone 2. At this limit, fearing quads because you've been flat-called is unreasonable. People will also slowplay K2 like its the nuts.

I don't thiknk you have a choice but to go broke here, especially with relatively small stacks. It's like set over set in NL.

[Acesover8s]

Nicky is 100% correct.

[ericsind]

Eh, why would you want to get away from this hand? You've got the second nuts and quads are very unlikely, even in omaha. I can see possibly if you have a good read on a player MAYBE getting away from the hand with VERY deep stacks, but I've never been in that situation before. Plus anybody with sixes, seven or a twos full boat could potentially play it like your opponent did.

A situation I've been pondering is the classic top 2 pair, turning into a boat versus an overboat hand. For example, you have AQxx, and the flop comes AQx, and the turn is a Q. I'm sure most omaha players are familiar with the ups and downs of betting out with top 2 pair, and happily making a boat, only to find out someone has AAxx in their hand for the overboat. I'm not sure if there's a way to get away from this hand either. I typically lose all of my money in this situation because I don't play with players who'll reliably lay down trip queens or maybe a lower boat. If you get bet into with this hand, it seems as if, similar to the quads hand, you're just going to lose your money, because simply calling with it seems too timid. Any thoughts?

(I don't mean to derail the original poster's quads question, by the way.)

[Cleveland Guy]

[ QUOTE ]
Eh, why would you want to get away from this hand? You've got the second nuts and quads are very unlikely, even in omaha. I can see possibly if you have a good read on a player MAYBE getting away from the hand with VERY deep stacks, but I've never been in that situation before. Plus anybody with sixes, seven or a twos full boat could potentially play it like your opponent did.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is one of the few and I mean few people who I would have considered folding too with a top boat. I actually had a feeling I was beat even when I put in my river bet, and knew it for sure when he raised me. I know checking seems pretty weak on the river, and against most players I wouldn't fear the boat, but he ALWAYS has the nuts when he re-raises on the river like that.

[Omaha Program]

You got about 1% to get quads if you have a pair on hand. So its not that unlikely that someone hits it.

.. But what do I know.. I play the lowest limits only.

[Cleveland Guy]

I'm thinking your Bot loses all it's money here every time.

Not that I didn't lose mine, but this is why bot's suck.

[Omaha Program]

well that all depends on if I find a player that is good enough to help me. If this guy only reraises when he knows he wins that is easy to teach the program. And so it will fold and not call. I have statistics over how often a player wins when he bets or raises on river. If that is 100% (it often is) it is probably a good idea to fold mostly.

[Ray Zee]

with these small stacks you always go broke here. but with large stacks in relation to the blinds and against tight players or good players if you dont get away from these losers when they happen, it is likely you can only be a break even player at best.

[Reef]

[ QUOTE ]

He re-raises all in, a move I don't think he'd make without the absolute nuts.

[/ QUOTE ]

You said it yourself. Fold

[SonicJimi]

Ray, that should be pretty easy, thoug, shouldn't it? You get reraised pot sized on river with top boat, just call instead of getting greedy and reraising.

I guess the difficulty comes when the preflop play has been aggressive enough to make the pot unmanageably huge...

This is one possible benefit from the half pot bet on the flop and/or turn, which I think is far too underutilized at the limits I play. People at the $25 or $50 buy in seem to either bet pot or minimum. A half pot bet at either of these spots would seriously cut the amount of the huge raise on the river...

[poppy]

a little harsh dont you think ray??????