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View Full Version : Thoughts on Preflop Raising


fimbulwinter
11-07-2004, 07:59 PM
Over the last 5K hands or so at 100NL, my style has changed, and, I believe, matured a bit. The difference here is due to the fact that some (usually one per table) players at this level think not only about their own cards, but also about what you might hold. they're also (as has been discussed in other threads) much, much more aggro at this level, compared to the lush green loose/weak fish pastures of 25NL and 50NL.

I feel this aspect of my play had been lacking before recently, especially because i felt that i needed an advertising budget (ciaffone finally convinced me otherwise) and because the overlay preflop is so much less than on later streets (even the worst hands crack aces, but river bets have no semibluffing equity).

Lately I've been running very very well in these games, and i think a bit of this is due to my abandonment of a "might is right" stance with respect to preflop play (which used to be a huge part of my personal table image). Many people here have asked "should you play this from this position?" etc. and, unless the situation is clearly cut and dried, most often the answer is, as always, "it depends."

The real meat of this post begins here: The following has been my thought process as to my preflop play at 100NL, where I can't just beat the table into submission.

I'll raise a hand preflop for the following reasons:

1. to add money to the pot. Preflop I want to play a huge pot with AA/KK, so these are no-brainers.

2. to attack the blinds. If i know there are two weakies in the blinds, I'll raise until i get called when it's folded to me.

3. to play a larger pot when you have a very well defined hand which figures to bust someone. I see a lot of the better 100NL players minraising small PP when they have family pots so that people feel more tied to a pot should they hit their set.

4. To isolate. often i find myself re-raising preflop with questionable holdings if i feel the preflop raiser is a LAG and that i can outplay him postflop. If i feel his average hand for a certain raise is KJo, i'll re-raise preflop with AJs, a move i wouldn't ever make against a rock (i'd probably just fold).

5. to purchase position. If i know those to my left are weak, i'll raise many hands 3xBB to buy the button in a family pot.

6. to disguise my hand. This is a questionable reason, but when the money really gets deep, i have raised suited connectors etc. for the chance to stack another big stack.

7. to ruin implied odds. If you're holding a hand with which you'd like to get all in on the flop, raise so that anyone playing an implied odds hand is losing in calling your raise. if they fold, so be it.

8. to fold out better hands. this is basically when you're totally stealing. normally you want to fold when they have a better hand, but sometimes (like attacking the blinds with 89s etc.) you hand has implied odds merits to make the steal and the folds of people with better hands +ev for you.

The nexus of the post is this: When considering a preflop raise, i think of its value (or deficit) in terms of the above, specifically in terms of whether or not the move is +ev.

for example(s):

you are on button and raised into on the CO by a normal player. with AKs, the standard move would be a re-raise. this pits the desire to isolate and the desire to get more money in the pot when you have (probably) the best hand against the desire to disguise your hand and the desire to improve your implied odds if you are getting bet into by a worse ace. what decides the move is how you want to play the hand (are you ok folding a K if he looks like he has AA?) and what determines that is how deep the money is and your opponents collective actions until now (i think it's called "shania"). If the money's short and he's loose, I repop. if the money's deep and he's aggro, I call.

improving this one, so seemingly easy part of NL has improved my winrate immensely, but i feel i am still very far from preflop raising nirvana.

hop in here if you disagree/agree/have more input.

fim

snowbank
11-10-2004, 12:29 PM
You made a lot of good points. I sometimes raise almost every time at the low NL tables. It's crazy, but sometimes works. I have stopped doing it, because when it wasn't working I was going on big downswings. I found if I raised a lot pre-flop, I would usually have only 1 or 2 callers, or win the blinds right there. As soon as the flop hit, I would bet it and usually win the pot there. I was doing this with A LOT of hands. When I would hit, they would be in a world of trouble. I could go up $300 in 10 minutes at a .50/1 or 1/2 table. But when I wasn't catching, it was juts stupid play, and I was losing focus on playing my game, and going on tilt.

Anyways, I think many times I will not only steal the blinds, but if there is a limper or two behind me I will raise up to 4X the bb with almost anything, many times winning the pot right there. Or if I'm in the bb, and only like the sb and one other calls, I will raise it up then too. Many times this works even better from the bb, because you don't have to worry about the blinds having a hand and getting raised. Again, once I start doing this, many times I forget my usual poker and turn into a crazy bluffing machine, which is why I am trying to steer away from it a bit. I still do it though. Any thoughts?

Ben
11-10-2004, 01:36 PM
[ QUOTE ]
When I would hit, they would be in a world of trouble. I could go up $300 in 10 minutes at a .50/1 or 1/2 table. But when I wasn't catching, it was juts stupid play, and I was losing focus on playing my game, and going on tilt.


[/ QUOTE ]

You make yourself sound like a classic LAG--someone most of us wouldn't have much trouble taking money from. I'm glad to hear you've stopped doing this.

snowbank
11-11-2004, 01:52 AM
"You make yourself sound like a classic LAG--someone most of us wouldn't have much trouble taking money from. I'm glad to hear you've stopped doing this."

I know it, I try to keep from doing it, but I still dabble in it. Paid off big tonight:

I have been bluffing and showing a lot at a table. Empire $100 NL(1/2) 6 max. I have 7-8 suited in early position. I limp. It's raised up to $6 and gets a caller. I would never call this, but when I am going crazy at the table and have most of the table on tilt, I will try and see the flop because if I hit something, I have a good chance to bust them. I have $450, raiser has $200 and caller has like $75. Flop comes 5-K-6. Raiser bets $11, folded to me and I call. Turn is a 4. Woohoo! He bets $50, I raise another $50, and he goes all-in. I take his stack. /images/graemlins/grin.gif
This is the type of stuff that keeps me coming back to this crazy style.

snowbank
11-11-2004, 01:55 AM
I'm an idiot. Forgot to include that the other guy showed AA.

Jord4n
11-11-2004, 02:20 AM
Whats LAG stand for again?

snowbank
11-11-2004, 02:29 AM
loose aggresive

Jord4n
11-11-2004, 02:31 AM
what i thought..thx