new stud hi lo player - a question

[kylma]

Hello,

First, I'm new to this forum. I have logged in hundreds of hours playing online poker now, mainly holdem, but recently also omaha hi lo, omaha hi, 7stud (in chronological order) and now I'm practicing 7stud hi lo.

I am studying Zee's hi lo book.. How suitable is the advice in Zee's book when I play at Party 0.50/1? The ante is 25 cents and many people play any 3 cards.

I'm not very happy with what has been going on so far. Is there something wrong with the 25c ante? Zee's starting hand recommendations make me play very tight. This means that after I muck 10 hands I have lost 2.5 bucks.. And in stud luck is such a factor that no starting hand is a clear favorite especially against several other hands. This makes me wonder, am I supposed to win my antes back by playing this tight, and only occasionally being lucky to get half of the pot? I feel I am not indeed getting monsters such as flush with low cards too often here.

Anyway, the other players seem to play any 3 cards and they do it passively.. Should I make adjustments to Zee's recommendations? Now I mainly watch them transfer chips to and from each other, and the only thing that is going into that flow is my ante contributions, and the only thing going away from that flow is the rake..

Summary: is the ante not normal, should I adjust my starting hands, or am I just getting an awful run of cards and I should be able to win my antes back (plus more)?

Thanks, have a nice Sunday

[B Mando]

I have never played Stud on Party but this is a terrible structure. You should move your money to Pokerstars immediatly where in the .50-1 game I believe there is either a .10 cent or .5 cent ante...I cant remember but 1-2 is a .10 cent ante and 2-4 is a .25 cent ante...much better structures were you are not forced to play more bad hands. I havent read Zee's book but from what I hear its gold, so just stick to his ideas, but on Pokerstars...

[kylma]

Whew! I logged out right away. I also saw in a hand example below where someone commented that 25c ante at 1/2 is inflated.. Now it's 25c at 0.50/1 !!
I will come to Pokerstars if they usually have game(s) going, I'm from Europe and mainly play during US morning/daytime.

I stick with Zee's advice and move to other site(s), yet it would be interesting to hear at least a short comment about the adjustment required

[bugstud]

well, the party games are pretty good, and there is less of an overante at the higher limits.

[timmer]

Form A home game that way you can set any structure you like . will be able to play indefinatly online gambling might not be around much longer. and you can keep all your profits instead of giving them to a multi billion dollar corporation.

Im telling you Home games are the way to go for LL players

[PoorLawyer]

But I can't play a home game for an hour in the morning before my boss gets in to work /images/graemlins/grin.gif

As to the original post, the party game has more swings than stars but I find the stars players to be a lot better at the lower limits. The bad play makes up for the big ante.

[Andy B]

Seems to me that the action at Party is pretty good, so I wouldn't necessarily quit playing there. If you've logged hundreds of hours playing poker already, can you swing $1/2, which has a saner, albeit still high, ante structure? I assure you that the $.50/1.00 game is beatable. Whether it's worth your time is another matter. The high ante in the $.50/1.00 game does call for slightly looser play. Don't get carried away with it, though. The bottom line is that you're going to have to show down the best hand in order to win. Your opponents will play badly enough that you should make up all of your antes and then some on your winning hands. I'm guessing that you haven't played nearly long enough for your luck to even out, and you may not play especially well.

I find Ray's book applicable to every stud/8 game I've played in, ranging from Party's $.50/1.00 game to Canterbury's $4/8 and $30/60 games to a $40/80 home game.

[kylma]

Bankrollwise I can easily play 1/2 .. Also 3/6 is fine when I start playing at least OK (if losing, not losing a lot).

How would you adjust your starting hands in a 0.50/1 game with 25c ante, or 1/2 with 25c ante, generally speaking? (Of course it always depends, but in general)

Would one or more of the following hands become marginally playable because of the high ante structure?

Small pair with a low card,
642 no suits,
3 flush with two low cards?
assuming the cards are pretty live

[imported_big ben]

[ QUOTE ]
Your opponents will play badly enough that you should make up all of your antes and then some on your winning hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is absolutely the case in PP's .5/1 games.

I don't understand why any skilled stud-8 player would be concerned with the high ante when the pots are so big- this more than makes up for the ante and periods of cold cards.

[Andy B]

I'll play 642 for two bets no matter what the structure unless the cards I need--Fives, Aces, Treys, and to a lesser extent, Sevens--are dead. The three-flush with two low cards has to be very live, and the low cards should be low, but that's playable without the over-ante, too. A small pair with a low kicker is really only playable for the bring-in. If a high card raises, you're behind for high, and you're almost certainly behind for low anyway, so you're looking at an uphill battle. Basically, you want to get in cheap, hope you hit trips early and get paid, preferably while representing a low. If you can make a good low cheaply, that's OK too. Anyway, I don't think that the high ante structure is the difference between those hands being playable or not. I think it's how much it costs to play, what you figure you're up against, and how you think the hand will play out.

[Nick_Foxx]

when the ante is really high like in the party .50/1.00 games, you have to loosen up your starting requirements... i'd take one off for the bring-in with all the types of hands you mention AS LONG AS THE CARDS ARE LIVE

if there is a lot of action on 3rd street, these kinds of hands should be folded except for the six four deuce which i would play for multiple bets - but not heads up against a high hand obviously

mike