Showing Gus Hansen what a REAL LAG is!

[bunky9590]

Pokerchamps 3/6 HE.
Bunky is the button GUS is CO-1.

Folded to MP (so so player) who open limps, Gus raises, Co folds, Bunky is on the button with K /images/graemlins/spade.gif Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif and three bets, blinds run for cover, limper cals, gus calls.

Flop A /images/graemlins/spade.gif K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif
Checked to Bunky bets, Mp folds, Gus smooth calls. Hmmmm.

Turn 4 /images/graemlins/spade.gif (wha bam!)
Gus checks, Bunky bets, Gus calls.

River 6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif
Gus checks, Bunky bets.

Before you get all crazy about the preflop 3 bet, I have my reasons. Let's see if you can figure why.

[sthief09]

because he'd raise a MP open limper with like 40% of his hands, and KQs at the top 10% of those?

[SCfuji]

was this a fish with the name gus or does he really play 3/6 on pokerchamps?

[pokerkai]

how is the pokerchamps site?

[sthief09]

it's his site

[SCfuji]

i just downloaded. seems like you can only do 2 cash games and 2 tournaments at a time (4 tables total). its like a fixed window and the tables are miniature. they have free entry freerolls where you could win like a buck. and they have 2c/4c holdem so it would be a free option to start your bankroll on another site.

[bunky9590]

I think he'd raise and MP limpper with closer to 75% of his hands if he thinks he can "buy the button" nad take control of the hand. My button three bet pretty much effed that play up though.

Surprised nobody else commented, just hijacked my thread. Thx Josh.

I thought for sure i'd get ripped for this one.

[sthief09]

yeah I think it's an easy 3-bet against an aggressive player that understands position. it's far from standard though, since most of our opponents don't understand position.

[bunky9590]

Gus folded the river.

Nobody else like dislike the PF THREE BET? With KQS?????

[Tosh]

[ QUOTE ]
I thought for sure i'd get ripped for this one.

[/ QUOTE ]

3 betting here cannot be commented on by someone who wasn't at the table. I have no idea how Gus plays 3/6 limit or how much real effort he puts in, as I have never played such a game with him, maybe its correct, maybe its not but noone who wasn't involved can say.

[bunky9590]

Hey Tosh, can't someone figure out the EV of the play?

Whether its good or not? Against a MP limper and a super LAG?

[spamuell]

Hey Bunky,

can't someone figure out the EV of the play?

Not really because we don't know the range of hands that Gus would raise here, and we don't know whether he was just being a LAG post-flop or whether he was playing properly and then we'd have to subtract a lot from the EV because of all the times he outplays you after the flop.

If he would raise a lot of hands, and it seems he would, 3-betting KQs should be standard.

[sthief09]

this is my logic:

preflop is pretty standard among players who know what they're doing. I know what I'm doing. I assume Gus knows what he's doing. I'd 3-bet myself, so I'd 3-bet Gus.

[Tosh]

[ QUOTE ]
I assume Gus knows what he's doing. I'd 3-bet myself, so I'd 3-bet Gus.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok this may sound silly but in my book thats a BIG assumption. Not just that Gus knows what he's doing but that he actually decides to do it. I played with a number of the pro's on FT when it first started and they often did not know how to play in such a game / were too busy talking to really play it as they would. E.g. one pro 3 bet a tight UTG's raise with AJo and cold called a looser player's raise with JJ.

We can't assume its Gus therefore we 3 bet, we need to be there or have the information give to us to really know. The play could easily be correct or incorrect so how can we know without playing in the game?

[sthief09]

wouldn't you assume that Gus would tend to play more aggressively than your normal player? Not because he's Gus Hansen the crazy aggro guy, but because he's bored and wants to play some hands, and raising is better than limping.

[Tosh]

[ QUOTE ]
wouldn't you assume that Gus would tend to play more aggressively than your normal player? Not because he's Gus Hansen the crazy aggro guy, but because he's bored and wants to play some hands, and raising is better than limping.

[/ QUOTE ]

How about its his site and wants to make sure he is fully able to chat to everyone and be welcoming, therefore he only plays premium hands so he can make sure of that?

The point is we don't know.

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
wouldn't you assume that Gus would tend to play more aggressively than your normal player? Not because he's Gus Hansen the crazy aggro guy, but because he's bored and wants to play some hands, and raising is better than limping.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, but he doesnt want to run over the whole table and scare everyone off.

I like the 3 bet BTW. I also dont think Gus plays very serious at champs (Ive played quite a few hands with him there)

[Zetack]

[ QUOTE ]
Gus folded the river.

Nobody else like dislike the PF THREE BET? With KQS?????

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey, Eff the 3-bet, I think you should've gone directly to a cap!!! Aggro his ass off.

--Zetack

[MisterKing]

[ QUOTE ]
Hey Tosh, can't someone figure out the EV of the play?

Whether its good or not? Against a MP limper and a super LAG?

[/ QUOTE ]

You're forgetting about the blinds. I presume with a hand like KQs you'd like to have a few folks along for the ride with you. Calling the raise encourages the SB and BB to come in and make the flop 5 handed. There would be 6.5SB in the pot when it gets to the SB if you called (4.33:1), and 8 SB in when it gets to the BB if the SB calls (8:1). I don't know about you, but I know a lot of low-limit players that would call a lot of hands in the SB when getting 4.33:1, and I know even more that would take almost any two in the BB for 8:1. Of course were the SB and BB to take these odds and call, MP would be getting 9:1 on his money and would certainly call. I guess what I'm saying here is that by calling you set off a chain reaction that encourages inferior hands to come into the hand with you... the down side being that if they're good players postflop, they may be getting a proper price to do so.

By your description, you're going to be ahead of the MP limper most of the time with KQs, and the blinds will have inferior holdings for multiway pots a considerable portion of the time. That leaves Gus as the unknown.

Even if Gus has a bigger hand, the equity you draw from having MP, SB, and BB in the pot should keep you in the black over the long run. And another thing, what would you have done with your KQs had MP folded along with the blinds? Your showdown value isn't too hot, and even if you make a pair, you may not be best.

So yeah, I'm not wild about the 3-bet, though I don't think its a clear-cut no-no. I think its just a little more straightforward to call down and see what the flop brings.